eBay

9llchingy · ‎03-26-2020

I listed 3 large cans of Lysol for auction starting at $9.95 and a Buy It Now price of $74.95. I had a buyer pay for two of my listing paying the $74.95 for each. Ebay emails me payment confirmation and to ship both orders. I go to post office first thing next morning and ship both orders and file the tracking number with Ebay and buyer. Then I get an email from Ebay the payment is on HOLD.

I checked listings prior to putting up my own auctions. I saw hundreds of auctions and sold auction with much higher prices then the price I listed. Why is my auctions being put on hold and buyers returned their payments AFTER I shipped some of my orders. What is a FAIR price for Lysol? Please I can't afford to ship items and pay shipping cost and not get paid for items I shipped. Many sellers like myself have to go to the post office at risk of getting infected, is it really to much to ask for $20 to $30 for one large can of Lysol?

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@mesodude wrote:
“It's not as clear when it was an auction and the starting price was close to retail.“

Actually it is perfectly clear that this is wrong. The OP is trying to profit as much as possible by auctioning a product that people are hoarding due to a worldwide health crisis.

”I have seen rare Amaterasu plush sell for over 800.00. ”

Stuffed animals aren’t necessary to protect the public’s health.

Hoarding products you *think* will protect your health != product will actually help you protect your health.

If Lysol is on the government's list of items essential to life, can someone post a link?

I'm not aware of any state or federal regulations that list disinfectants as essential to life.

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
Kentucky Attorney General has issued subpoenas to Amazon price gougers in his state. Probably won't be long before other states follow suit, and ebay price gougers see some of those same subpoenas.

What products were being sold, and what is the law in Kentucky?

mrdutch1001 · ‎03-26-2020

I doubt that any of that matters... this is eBay...eBay's rules/eBay's policies and if eBay decides to remove said product from this site for reasons given, then that is the way it is...there is nothing that can be changed at this point,so in plain English that means said seller cannot list it or try to re-list said product at this time...

long-gone · ‎03-26-2020

Fair price? This is a fair price.

mesodude · ‎03-26-2020

I was on your side until you start trying to rationalize price gouging. I didn’t say Lysol was essential to anything and I don't know what “list” you’re talking about. Products meant to disinfect people or surfaces have been hoarded for months now. Just because it may not be happening everywhere and the government hasn’t placed it on an official “list” doesn’t change the fact that you are price gouging. This is about protecting public health and preventing the spread of the virus.

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@mrdutch1001 wrote:
I doubt that any of that matters... this is eBay...eBay's rules/eBay's policies and if eBay decides to remove said product from this site for reasons given, then that is the way it is...there is nothing that can be changed at this point,so in plain English that means said seller cannot list it or try to re-list said product at this time...

eBay policies enforce a complete ban on the sale of certain products. I would be very careful about getting onto a public message board where one's responses can be tracked and accusing (most likely baselessly) another seller of price gouging. Such comments could be interpreted as an attempt to slander another seller and could also be considered tortuous interference in another's business.

Price gouging laws vary by state. Some states have no price gouging laws at all (mine doesn't). In every state I've reviewed that has such a law, there are certain criteria that need to be met before such laws are active, such as a declaration of a state of emergency by a governor, or by the President of the United States in the region where the emergency is occurring.

Additionally, those laws have to specify what constitutes "price gouging" and which items actually qualify under said law.

Citing the earlier example of Kentucky, I took some time to go read the law, and it is _incredibly_ vague. I strongly doubt its even enforceable. Sure, the AG is going to go file cases, and they're probably going to get tossed by the courts.

In Kentucky, the AG office has released a statement that they will pursue gouging claims on disinfectant and hand sanitizer sales. I find this quite interesting, because the FDA itself has come straight out with a public statement saying that such items have NO proven efficacy against COVID-19 and you bet anyone who gets sued by the AG on such grounds is going to use such a statement in court.

Additionally, the Kentucky law saws that the items cannot be sold for significantly more then either the seller themselves sold them prior to the state of emergency, or the top market price other sellers were selling them for. So, if prior to state of emergency anyone in Kentucky sold a can of Lysol for $100, then the AG has no case. Period.

Anyone really interested in this subject should probably go look at Florida as a case-study, because they have the most developed laws. 2/3 of the claims submitted in Florida were either determined not to legally be price gouging, or were covered by other agreements - ie, price of supply increased - which is an absolute defense to any claims under there laws.

I guess I am not up to date on the politics of Kentucky, but I have to assume the AG is probably up for re-election or something.

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@long-gone wrote:
Fair price? This is a fair price.

"price for in store purchase only"

long-gone · ‎03-26-2020

The New York Attorney General has put it on her official list and wants people to let her office know who is price gouging.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/ag-seeks-to-stop-hand-sanitizer-disinfectant-price-gouging-over-corona...

"A grocery store in Astoria, Queens called City Fresh Market has been selling 19 oz spray disinfectant bottles for $14.99, the AG’s alleged. The office sent a similar warning letter to the 21-15 Broadway store Monday.

“While there remains no cause for widespread panic, some people are looking to prey on others’ anxiety and line their own pockets,” James said in a statement. “My office will remain vigilant in ensuring that we find and stop such unlawful activity and continue to ask the public to report suspected fraud, scams, or price gouging to my office.”

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@mesodude wrote:
I was on your side until you start trying to rationalize price gouging. I didn’t say Lysol was essential to anything and I don't know what “list” you’re talking about. Products meant to disinfect people or surfaces have been hoarded for months now. Just because it may not be happening everywhere and the government hasn’t placed it on an official “list” doesn’t change the fact that you are price gouging. This is about protecting public health and preventing the spread of the virus.

I'm not really here to be part of a popularity contest. What I'm saying is that price gouging laws only apply to certain products or classes of products and only during a state of emergency. The governors of said states pretty much need to issue an executive order stating exactly what those products are, in order for any gouging laws to be enforceable.

Here is the FDA going after Purell claiming their statements about eliminating ebola and flu are unfounded:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/27/business/fda-purell/index.html

They've even now gone and issued guidance indicating that for such sanitizers to be effective they must contain "greater than 60% ethanol or 70% isopropanol " and I bet just about zero hand sanitizers on the market contain that amount. As anecdotal evidence from bottles I've purchased in the past, they contained between 25%-40% alcohol. I assume this probably has something to do with such sanitzers not staying congealed into a gel under high alcohol concentrations.

mrdutch1001 · ‎03-26-2020

shall I emphasise this again: I am discussing what is being banned on eBay at this point in time- I am not referencing any state laws. I am referencing eBay's rules/policies:

If eBay states that certain products cannot be sold on their site for the reasons they have provided, then it is against the terms of use/against eBay's policies and said seller will have said product(s) removed and is not allowed to list/re-list during the ban period. That is what I am saying.

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@long-gone wrote:
The New York Attorney General has put it on her official list and wants people to let her office know who is price gouging.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/ag-seeks-to-stop-hand-sanitizer-disinfectant-price-gouging-over-corona...

"A grocery store in Astoria, Queens called City Fresh Market has been selling 19 oz spray disinfectant bottles for $14.99, the AG’s alleged. The office sent a similar warning letter to the 21-15 Broadway store Monday.
“While there remains no cause for widespread panic, some people are looking to prey on others’ anxiety and line their own pockets,” James said in a statement. “My office will remain vigilant in ensuring that we find and stop such unlawful activity and continue to ask the public to report suspected fraud, scams, or price gouging to my office.”

Same article:

"Scheman also said his markup was the same percentage as normal and the high price was due to the wholesaler selling it to him so expensively."

...

"“We have clear documentation that no gouging occurred and we are fully prepared to present that evidence at a time and place of the Attorney General’s choosing,” Scheman said."

Its going to get tossed. NY Post has been a rag for years.

mesodude · ‎03-26-2020

“The governors of said states pretty much need to issue an executive order stating exactly what those products are, in order for any gouging laws to be enforceable.”

Who cares what’s enforceable? People with any sense of decency or morality don’t wait around for their government to spell out for them the difference between right and wrong.

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@mesodude wrote:
“The governors of said states pretty much need to issue an executive order stating exactly what those products are, in order for any gouging laws to be enforceable.”

Who cares what’s enforceable? People with any sense of decency or morality don’t wait around for their government to spell out for them the difference between right and wrong.

Hmmm... in my experience, businesses pretty much always do whatever maximizes profits.

Nobody is forcing you to buy from a business whose practices you find to be unethical.

mesodude · ‎03-26-2020

“Hmmm... in my experience, businesses pretty much always do whatever maximizes profits.”

Thanks for the tip but that doesn’t change the fact that there are legal and moral reasons not to price gouge.

“Nobody is forcing you to buy from a business whose practices you find to be unethical.”

You clearly don’t understand the purpose of price gouging laws. If a product meant to protect public health is scarce, then people who need the product aren’t in a position to choose between an ethical business vs an unethical one.

equid0x · ‎03-26-2020

@mesodude wrote:
“Hmmm... in my experience, businesses pretty much always do whatever maximizes profits.”

Thanks for the tip but that doesn’t change the fact that there are legal and moral reasons not to price gouge.

“Nobody is forcing you to buy from a business whose practices you find to be unethical.”

You clearly don’t understand the purpose of price gouging laws. If a product meant to protect public health is scarce, then people who need the product aren’t in a position to choose between an ethical business vs an unethical one.

They aren't? eBay was the only place in the US to find Lysol?

The Lysol hospitals and similar institutions use is not what you buy off the shelf at wal-mart.