Vero violation questions.

[fern*wood]

This is a subject I see rather often, but seldom read much about unless I'm affected.  Of course I see a red banner policy notice at the top of my listings this morning for a vero violation.  I read some of the earlier posts on the board, but since I didn't get any email, I see no particular reason given to know how/what to fight.  The only options I have are appeal (afraid to click on for now) or end listing.  I'd rather not fight & will probably just end the listing, but do I now have a violation I need to do something about?

[luckythewinner]

A VERO violation happens when an intellectual property (IP) owner files a Notice of Claimed Infringement (NOCI) with eBay.

Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), eBay is protected from liability arising from your activity on their site provided they remove the alleged infringing content promptly.

Your recourse is to either (a) hash it out with the IP owner, or (b) file a Counter-Notice to the NOCI. Once the notice is filed, the IP Owner has 10 days to respond by filing a court case against you. If they do not do so within 10 days,eBay is free to restore the content if they want. (However, the counter-notice is not binding on eBay and they are under no obligation to restore the content and probably will not).

If you then relist the item, the IP owner can file another NOCI and start the whole thing all over.

All that aside ...

I am a bit confused why eBay left the listing up. That is a new one on me.

[lakefor94]

I have had a couple of Veros over the years. EBay ended and deleted the listings before I could do that myself. Happened in the 2018 timeframe or thereabouts.

They did not allow much time for me to take any action. In one case I was out on the lake, by the time I returned to the house, item was deleted. 

Ended up relisting and selling the items without using the Brand names.

[golfingaddict]

Without knowing the reason or even the possibility that it was a correct Vero takedown....

My position would be to fight/appeal the takedown if I felt or believed that it was a false takedown.

I am not willing to risk my account over an overzealous rights owner that simply wants to stop sellers from selling their product. 

[albertabrightalberta]

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@fern*wood wrote:

The only options I have are appeal (afraid to click on for now) or end listing.  I'd rather not fight & will probably just end the listing, but do I now have a violation I need to do something about?

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If you have the option to end the listing, it doesn't sound like you have a violation (yet). So there's nothing (yet) to appeal. 

When you get a violation, the listing is removed (without the option to take it down on your own) with a message describing what the alleged violation is and with an email address to which to send your appeal to the rights owner.

If you got a message, would you copy it (redacting any personal info)? 

Many years ago, when listing certain brands, I remember a warning that would come up (not sure of the color of the warning) reminding me that items must be authentic and not to post the listing unless they were. I don't recall seeing this warning recently though.

[fern*wood]

Since I'm easily confused, I searched my active listings to see if it would appear and it did.  It also says above it (probably missed seeing earlier) that the listing was removed, but it gives me the option to end listing.   Okay, I still didn't click on appeal or see any reason other than intellectual property rights.  I guess I'll hit end and move on.  I'll sell them locally, but do I have a policy violation anyway?

[fern*wood]

I can find no ebay messages about this anywhere.  If I hadn't clicked on listings eligible to send offers this morning, I wouldn't have even know I had this.  Nothing shows on the hub without clicking active listings or to send offers and I have the red banner on those pages.   It appears the listing is taken down, so I guess I have a policy violation on my report card somewhere.  I don't see it on the dashboard.

[ebooksdiva]

@fern*wood 

 I think ifyou have a policy violation you would find it when you click Help & Contact or eBay Help in the Seller Help section you will find any violations it will show up in "Suggestions for you".

[luckythewinner]

My position would be to fight/appeal the takedown if I felt or believed that it was a false takedown.

Just remember that from eBay's perspective, VERO is not about determining what is "right" vs. "wrong" for the seller. It is about whether eBay is "protected" vs. "exposed". 

If eBay complies with the VERO notice and takes the listing down, eBay is protected from liability arising from any IP violation. If eBay gets it wrong, nothing happens. 

If eBay ignores the VERO notice and leaves the listing up, eBay is exposed to liability arising from any IP violation.  If eBay gets it wrong, they can be liable and taken to court for the seller's actions. 

IP law, IP rights, and licensing agreements can be very complicated, and eBay is not an expert in every one of the 1.5 billion items on its site.  There are entire law firms that specialize in it and the court battles can be long and expensive.

I find it very unlikely that eBay would go to bat for a seller and substitute its own judgement about such a complicated matter. It is far easier and cheaper to simply play it safe and remove the listing.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Hi @fern*wood , in case you haven’t seen the info in eBay’s Help pages, here is the link to the policy for all things VERO.

https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/ebay-for-business/verified-rights-owner-program

[golfingaddict]

I never suggested that I would expect eBay to fight for me.

I would fight the rights owner.  I would take it to court if I had to, it is that important to me.  

I have spoken numerous times with eBay Government relations team about this issue.  Some "rights owners" use Vero incorrectly to try to bully sellers into not selling their products.  Most understand that it is a misuse of Vero, but that doesn't stop others.

This has been going on for over 25 years.   

Like I said, if I felt it was a false vero, I would fight it.  Not with eBay but with the rights owner.

[wastingtime101]

Start @fern*wood by going to your Resolution Hub, found under Account Settings.

https://www.ebay.com/rh

If it's a VeRO notice you will see it there with a 'more details' link. If you don't see it on that page then send me a PM with a screenshot of what you are seeing.

[fern*wood]

I did stubble onto that resolution hub earlier and it states the policy violation is VeRO Unauthorized Item Policy.   The more details takes me back to the photo of my item with the two options of appeal or end listing (which I already clicked even though ebay had ended it earlier).   I guess nothing more I can do now.

[wastingtime101]

There's been a tech issue since Dec 26 with emails not coming through @fern*wood so in your shoes I would:

1. Check to see if the notice is in eBay messages. It should be. You can find the rights owner there to send an email and appeal. Even if you don't intend to keep it active and sell it, if you believe the listing was not a violation you should attempt to get the rights owner to reverse it as it's the only way to get the violation off your account.

2. If you don't see it in eBay messages, contact eBay CS and ask them to re-send it because of the aforementioned email bug. Then follow above steps to dispute with rights owner.

[fern*wood]

No eBay message.  What will the policy violation do on my account?  I bought the items at a yard sale, so I’m guessing I have no right to sell if they don’t want me too.