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Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

hey everyone

So to make a long story short, i sold a item on here. The buyer picked it up, it was a large item. Days later the buyer messages the item works but not to his specifications. He takes the item apart, send pictures, then wants to return the item. Ebay sends me a email to provide shipping label. Item weighs 2000+lbs, he took states away. A week later ebay does not look at facts, closes case, and refunds buyer, is able to keep item and ebay charges a fee of $123 for sale on top of all. This is very unacceptable. 

Thank

Message 1 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@atikovi wrote:

Check out the relevant post at message #35 in topic: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping-Returns/Help-shipping-a-very-large-ladder/td-p/28504195/page/...

 

"At this time, there is no difference in procedures for a Return Request for items that were shipped to the buyer and those picked up by the buyer. As long as the transaction meets our eligibility requirements, the purchase is protected under the eBay Money Back Guarantee in the same way. The seller would be responsible for return shipping costs if the buyer needed to return the item for a reason we consider to be not as described. That being said, since the item is listed locally, the seller would likely be able to work out picking up the return themselves and have this documented clearly in the communication on eBay. If this is not an option, the item would need to be shipped back at the seller's cost."


Well, this certainly is unfortunate- this has the potential of costing a hapless seller hundreds of dollars ABOVE AND BEYOND the initial transaction cost- and, frankly, this stinks. If there was ever any doubt that eBay is deliberately exposing sellers to fraud for all the fees sellers pay, and deliberately allowing EBAY'S PAYING CUSTOMERS to be flayed and fleeced at will by predatory "buyers" and competitors, this goes a really long way in erasing that doubt. With all the constant chatter about "enhanced" and "improved" "seller protection", actual policies like this get formulated- it's starting to appear to be deliberate deception on eBay's part.

 

It's no wonder that this site seems to be turning into a scam magnet primarily. Something needs to be done here- but as usual, nothing WILL be done except to further expose sellers to fraud, followed by the usual shoulder shrug from eBay.

 

So the word will be out- buy something "Local Pickup"- go out, inspect it, express satisfaction, load up and take the item several states away, break it, take it apart to swap your bad part or whatever- then give your seller an added "one- two punch" by calling it SNAD and forcing the seller to either relinquish it or pay to have it shipped back, with no telling what he'll get. 

 

Will it also be "we have no idea WHAT your buyer picked up!" when a brick or a phone book comes back?

 

Incredible.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".
Message 61 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

@Anonymous  why don't you ask the OP to contact you from the account that has the bad sale so you can help them?

Message 62 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

Wow, so may this post is getting the websites attention..... So many other sellers saying the same huh, not go for business...

My lawyer advised me not to use the account. 

I have tried again calling your customer service, this is a automated reply. 

Since I'm not able to review the details, I can only recommend that you contact Customer Service to have the details reviewed for further discussion.

I have had now 13 ebay managers, supervisors review the case.....

Message 63 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

EXACTLY, well said, i could not agree more.

That is exactly what is happening.

Just read the BBB Reviews, 500+ similar, but no way to contact those people, so.

There is a way i believe to expose this, it may take some time, but so far i have a list of sellers like us all that have had this happen to them.  And this post is only getting bigger and bigger by the day. 

 

 

Message 64 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

This was a basic customer service rep, this post is getting bigger and bigger, and they are noticing it. They want me to call them, and look over the case, and tell me nothing can be done. Now its 14 ebay reps ive spoken with and all the same, i explain my case, they look over it. Maybe one day they will want me to contact them, and they will want to refund me. And what about my item cost ebay. What about these other sellers.

They will say, please post on the forum we settled this issue......

Has not happened yet...

 

I wonder if BBB is under something with ebay now. Every review has the name ebay xxx out. 

Then i posted in reddit

Ok, so ill keep posting , keep finding others with the same issue.

 

Message 65 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

So now since i started yelling at ebay, before i posted this on this forum, i got to a manager FINALLY i thought was going to help.

In a recorded conversation, she states in 5 days i should have a refund the case will be open. Of course thats been a lie now, the time has passed now, and nothing heard from ebay.

Thats the last straw, i am done with talking anymore ebay. Now its time for sellers stories to be told, if in the courtroom need be. 

 

Message 66 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

If previous advise didn't work. The link below should help.

 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259#17.%20Legal%20Di...

 

Look for "2. Arbitration Procedures"

 

This is an excerpt from it:

 

A party who intends to seek arbitration must first send to the other, by certified mail, a completed form Notice of Dispute ("Notice"). You may download a form Notice - opens in new window or tab. The Notice to eBay should be sent to eBay Inc., Attn: Litigation Department, Re: Notice of Dispute, 583 W. eBay Way, Draper, UT 84020. eBay will send any Notice to you to the physical address we have on file associated with your eBay account; it is your responsibility to keep your physical address up to date. All information called for in the Notice must be provided, including a description of the nature and basis of the claims the party is asserting and the relief sought.

 

If you and eBay are unable to resolve the claims described in the Notice within 30 days after the Notice is sent, you or eBay may initiate arbitration proceedings. A form for initiating arbitration proceedings is available on the AAA's site at www.adr.org. In addition to filing this form with the AAA in accordance with its rules and procedures, the party initiating the arbitration must mail a copy of the completed form to the opposing party. You may send a copy to eBay at the following address: eBay, Inc. c/o CT Corporation System, 1108 E South Union Ave., Midvale, UT 84047. In the event eBay initiates an arbitration against you, it will send a copy of the completed form to the physical address we have on file associated with your eBay account. Any settlement offer made by you or eBay shall not be disclosed to the arbitrator.

 

The arbitration hearing shall be held in the county in which you reside or at another mutually agreed location. If the value of the relief sought is $10,000 or less, you or eBay may elect to have the arbitration conducted by telephone or based solely on written submissions, which election shall be binding on you and eBay subject to the arbitrator's discretion to require an in-person hearing, if the circumstances warrant. In cases where an in-person hearing is held, you and/or eBay may attend by telephone, unless the arbitrator requires otherwise.

 

The arbitrator will decide the substance of all claims in accordance with applicable law, including recognized principles of equity, and will honor all claims of privilege recognized by law. The arbitrator shall not be bound by rulings in prior arbitrations involving different users, but is bound by rulings in prior arbitrations involving the same eBay user to the extent required by applicable law. The arbitrator's award shall be final and binding and judgment on the award rendered by the arbitrator may be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof.

 

Costs of Arbitration

Payment of all filing, administration and arbitrator fees will be governed by the AAA's rules, unless otherwise stated in this Agreement to Arbitrate. If the value of the relief sought is $10,000 or less, at your request, eBay will pay all filing, administration, and arbitrator fees associated with the arbitration. Any request for payment of fees by eBay should be submitted by mail to the AAA along with your Demand for Arbitration and eBay will make arrangements to pay all necessary fees directly to the AAA. If (a) you willfully fail to comply with the Notice of Dispute requirement discussed above, or (b) in the event the arbitrator determines the claim(s) you assert in the arbitration to be frivolous, you agree to reimburse eBay for all fees associated with the arbitration paid by eBay on your behalf that you otherwise would be obligated to pay under the AAA's rules.

Message 67 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item

Thank you very much for the information. So far i have gathered up other sellers to take the next steps. 

Message 68 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@princo53 wrote:

Thats the question paypal asked, the buyer was at our warehouse for 20 mins, we loaded it on a flatbed, with our forklift, he strapped it down, signed our pickup receipt, waved and left. When he stated he took the item apart, and sent us in ebay the pictures, that should have been the end of it, it wasnt.....


Any security camera footage? I'd save it. 

Message 69 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@princo53 wrote:

Hi, it does not seem like ebay cares, phone call after phone call, they tell me the same. In recorded phone calls with managers. Something is really crooked here, managers only give first names. You ask them over and over. They say sorry sir, can only give my first name, but i can give you a reference number. I am getting so tired of the crookedness, i have lists of ebay names, no last names.  On another forum, they mentioned i should go to the newspaper, not sure the media would do anything. Thanks for the reply, exactly yes, even after lost the item, and refunded, the fee they charged me. 


Crooked as hell BTW....

 

File something with BBB we what they come up with. 

Message 70 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@vintagecraze50 wrote:

I think they need something like what Mercari does on their site. When the buyers gets the item, they inspect it and then are asked to leave feedback. Once you leave that feedback that you were satisfied with the item a prompt comes up saying that all sales are final. Now, that still would not prevent a chargeback from a customer though, so no matter what, the consumer usually always wins. For local pickup, cash only.


eBay made its own bed when they decided to mediate everyone's transactions. 

 

If the buyer had a legitimate claim, they always had legal recourse just like any other sale. No additional protection for buyers is necessary. 

Message 71 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@princo53 wrote:

Yes, your right, believe me after all the calls, the lies, they just do not care. I believe its because they have done it to so many people for such low amounts, they have got away with it for so long. With someone that has the same experience at a lower cost, its not worth their time, cost it would take to fight it.  Honestly, after i spoke with the last support supervisor, that lied right to me, i do not think the people in these call centers know their own policies. I wonder if their call centers are outsourced to several companies.

I went to see a friend one year in this huge business complex in atlanta. Building after building , acres of buildings. His car auto stereo shop was there, a building down was this huge call center. Must have been 300 or more people in this open space, in cubicals. They took phone calls for western union, visa , cisco, several others at different times. 

Would not be surprised ebays call center is the same......


At a minimum... Cisco alone has call centers in Maryland, RTP, North Carolina, San Jose, California, Krakow, Poland, Bangalore, India, and Costa Rica....

 

I heard from a friend of a friend... LOL

 

Message 72 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@sugarnspice777 wrote:

@princo53 wrote:

Yes, your right, believe me after all the calls, the lies, they just do not care. I believe its because they have done it to so many people for such low amounts, they have got away with it for so long. With someone that has the same experience at a lower cost, its not worth their time, cost it would take to fight it.  Honestly, after i spoke with the last support supervisor, that lied right to me, i do not think the people in these call centers know their own policies. I wonder if their call centers are outsourced to several companies.

I went to see a friend one year in this huge business complex in atlanta. Building after building , acres of buildings. His car auto stereo shop was there, a building down was this huge call center. Must have been 300 or more people in this open space, in cubicals. They took phone calls for western union, visa , cisco, several others at different times. 

Would not be surprised ebays call center is the same......


Where is a eBay representative????  I would like to know if a buyer is "Now allowed" to dismantle a item, send photos of this destruction, and your customer service is allowed to go against your own rules, that a buyer not tamper with a product, and rule in favor of a buyer??  Where are you ebay?  Can you please answer this question!!


You would have to hail a mod and hope for the best.

Message 73 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@princo53 wrote:

At this point, i think i am beyond royally **bleep** off, I  think i am not in the realm of fighting and suing for stress and anger and anxiety.  Forever i have seen lawsuits of people they get punitive damages, pain and suffering and i thought what is that junk, throw that case out. BUT now, after going through this, i kinda understand why. People spend months, years fighting, waiting, it takes a toll on your mind, your body, your soul, it seriously makes you ask yourself is there still good in this world. That expression , take them to the cleaners comes to mind. I played by their rules, i tested the item, i listed it correctly, i took payment. I arranged with the buyer to pickup his item. I waited 45 minutes past closing for him to arrive at the warehouse. I spent 20 mins with the buyer, i got him a tape measure so he could measure the machine. I used my forklift to load on his flatbed. I made him sign a receipt for pickup. I waved while the buyer left. I paid my ebay fees, i paid my ebay listing fees. WHAT else can a person possibly do as a seller, give the buyer blood too. The the buyer, all he has to do is open a case, that it does not work, send pictures that he took the item apart, as that should be proof that it does not work. And then ebay gives him a refund. I am so glad so many others here on the forums understand. I have spent the last month fighting this so far. Countless hours calling ebay, recording conversations, talking to manager after manager, supervisors. Repeating my story over and over and over, EVEN tho the managers say i will notate this so you do not have to re-explain to the supervisor. WHAT happens i have to explain again of course. I hear nothing but the same questions, so the buyer picked up the item, so did you get our email to create a return shipping label. I tell them LOOK he sent you pictures in ebay, he took it apart, then i hear nothing, as if they do not care.  I have heard lies after lies. I paid my ebay fees for this item, My paypal went negative $950, had to pay that back. And of course, the buyer is gitty, has the machine, probably using it, and his money back. So now i am going to fight it, keep posting, getting advise, maybe find other sellers with the same, maybe getting a result, how ever long that takes. 


In the future, I would not wait extensively beyond close for a non-repeat customer. 

 

A reliable customer, yes... but there are plenty who will just try to "grease the wheels" to get what they want and then disappear. 

Message 74 of 102
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Re: Unacceptable case closed, buyer refunded, buyer kept item


@princo53 wrote:

EXACTLY, well said, i could not agree more.

That is exactly what is happening.

Just read the BBB Reviews, 500+ similar, but no way to contact those people, so.

There is a way i believe to expose this, it may take some time, but so far i have a list of sellers like us all that have had this happen to them.  And this post is only getting bigger and bigger by the day. 

 

 


I would send certified mail with my complaint to the following address:

 

eBay, Inc.

Attn: Corporate Council

2145 Hamilton Ave.

San Jose, CA

95125

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