11-28-2019 02:40 AM
Here is my personal experience with this matter, coming from someone who has been selling for 15+ years.
A HUGE portion of my Ebay inventory has been sitting here, on this site, for 5+ years.
Yes, 5+ years.
I have lowered prices, I have given these items a promotional rate of 10-15%, I have changed keywords, reworded tiles, re-photographed. Yet, I have hundreds of items that have been sitting in my store for 5+ years. That's hundreds of items that no one has wanted in over half a decade.
Meanwhile, I'll sometimes source newer, fresher, more in demand, and more exciting items for really cheap. I often make huge bundles and end up buying out a lot of people who want to liquidate for cheap simply because they don't want the items anymore or they are going out of business.
There have been times when I'd bring in a huge haul of 200-300 brand new items and I'd get all 200-300 items listed within one month, and, about 80% of the entire inventory would be gone within one month. Many times, I'd actually list an item and it would sometimes sell within days, sometimes within hours, and even sometimes within minutes of me listing it. Recently, I listed a brand new item and someone bought it five minutes after I listed it.
Then, I'd notice that if some time passed since my last exciting and fresh haul, things would slow again. I'd be stuck with those same hundreds of items that have been in my store for 5+ years. Nothing would be selling. I'd go hunt for more liquidations, for more thrift store sales, for more garage sales, for more people willing to give me a bunch of stuff for cheap because they're going out of business or view this stuff as junk (despite it selling very well online)
So, I'd sulk for a few days about how it's Ebay's fault, and sales are slow, etc. etc. Then, I'd sort of snap out of it and I'd go on a mission to source more cheap items through my contacts that I've made and all of the aforementioned methods that I use for sourcing items. And, ta-da, I'd come across another great haul of several hundred items that are newer, fresher, and more easy to sell than a lot of the hard to sell stuff sitting in my inventory for over half a decade. I'd bring these new hauls in, list them, and things would go flying off the shelves.
Then, once they flew off the shelves and I ended up selling hundreds of items within one month, I'd be back to being left with hundreds of items that have been on my store for 5+ years. Once again, I'd sulk about slow sales, but would then go out to source more items. Rinse and repeat.
Is it more likely that I have literally hundreds of items in my store that have been in there for 5+ years because Ebay is doing something to make people not buy my items (despite me putting a 10% promotional rate on them, despite me running sales on them, despite me re-arranging keywords, re-photographing them, posting them on social media, etc.) or... MAYBE, just maybe, the reason that some things sell almost instantly and some things (as I've mentioned) have sat in my store for 5+ years is... simply because no one wants them.
And that's the cold hard truth. Those items that I can't seem to sell no matter what I do? Nobody wants them.
You can talk about conspiracies all you want. They may be true, they may not be true. Maybe there's a middle ground where they're half true - I don't know and I don't want to get into a debate about what I do or do not know to be a 100% absolute and concrete fact. What I do know, however, is that there's no way that hundreds upon hundreds of my items have been being throttled, have had search engine issues, have little page views, and have been limited in visibility for over half a decade simply because it's Ebay's fault. The truth is, no one wants those items that have been in my store for over five years. No one wants them. I have seen it time and time again. I'll come home with a 400 item haul of things that are more in demand and more desirable and it'll sell like hot cakes while I'll still have those several hundred items in my store that no one absolutely wants, despite my best efforts to try to sell them.
The sad reality is that even if Ebay does limit visibility, and even if you aren't in the search engine 100% of the time, and even if the search engine can be wonky sometimes and not put your search result at a good placement... the sad reality is that your items will only sell if someone wants to buy them. And, not only that, but we're also competing with 100s of 1000s (depending on the category) of sellers who are selling the same exact things that we are. Plus, if someone is even slightly higher in the search results than we are, or has a slightly better price, or slightly better photos, or a slightly better description, then they can take a sale away from us that could potentially be ours.
Categories are becoming over-saturated, crowded, and some people get better placement than us in search results -- especially if these people have a lot of buyers who follow their store, for example. People with higher promotional rates also get way better placement than those without a promotional rate or those who have a low promotional rate. Even if these theories about Ebay are true, people still need to realize one thing. People speculate that the search engine is broken, that throttling is a thing (I'm not saying it isn't a thing, Ebay doesn't exactly deny that they never hide our listings), and so many other conspiracy theories about why our sales aren't happening. HOWEVER, even if throttling 100% stopped, and even if the search engine was better, and even if all of these problems went away, people would still be making the same boards about slow sales, no sales, or Ebay doing something to hinder sales.
Why? Because even if all of these problems that people speculate about were 100% fixed, we would still be battling extensive competition, over-saturated categories, Chinese sellers (who sell much cheaper than us), our items simply not being in style anymore, people buying the same items we do sell from other websites, and we'd still be competing with thousands of other sellers who are selling in the same category. It would still be chaos even if every single issue that people are speculating about was fixed.
Would things improve, though? Maybe, yeah. But the main thing is: 1) your items won't sell if people won't buy them in the first place 2) Your items may not sell if you don't have the best price on the entire site 3) your items may not sell if you're not high up enough in the search results
And those are all cold hard facts. Even if you stripped all of the problems that people say Ebay has, we would still be tackling all of the above and it still would not by any means be smooth sailing. It might be smoother sailing, but it still wouldn't be smooth sailing.
I also want to add this:
People need to remember that we're not just competing with thousands of sellers within the categories that we sell in here on Ebay. We are competing with every single large and small vendor on the entire internet, whether they are a small vendor or a huge mainstream marketplace. We are competing with: other online marketplaces, auction sites, storefront websites that sell the same things we do, Craigslist, and now there's Facebook marketplace which wasn't in place before. I have met many local ex-Ebay sellers in my area who swear that their sales tanked when our local Facebook marketplace because so active. On top of that, we are also competing with in-person vendors.
A good way to put it into perspective is like this:
Seller A has an item.
Buyer A, B, and C want this said item.
Buyer A may find this said item that Seller A is selling on a plethora of other online marketplaces completely outside of Ebay.
Buyer B may go out and buy this item in person.
Buyer C wants to buy this item on Ebay itself and no other online or in-person store.
Now, Buyer C has to sift through hundreds or thousands of search results.
The ones with the best price, the best photos, the best descriptions, the best visibility, the highest promotional rates, etc. are all fighting to attract Buyer C to buy their item.
Meanwhile, Buyer A got the same item elsewhere on the internet and Buyer B bought the same item in person.
Now, Buyer C has to sift through Ebay's search results to try to find the best value for their buck.
Buyer C may even change their minds while searching for items on Ebay and decide that they want to get the item elsewhere online from a different marketplace or try to go out and buy it in person like Buyer A and B.
In a metaphoric way, buyers are like fish that we sellers try to reel in, but, they sometimes just get loose and simply swim away.
Hopefully that put things more into perspective. Remember that as Ebay expands and grows with more and more sellers flooding in to sell their items, there are also places elsewhere on the internet on different marketplaces as well that are expanding. There are places in real life that are expanding. We have more sellers now than we did in the past, but also, there are now more other online marketplaces where buyers can get items from. People often say "I remember when Ebay was different and things sold quickly..." I remember those days, too.
1) Ebay had a LOT less sellers on here back then in those days.
2) There were not as many other online marketplaces such as Facebook marketplace as there are now
3) Yes, search engines and algorithms definitely changed. Yes, throttling may be a thing. I'm not discounting it.
4) Remember, things go out of style and out of fashion. Older generations may stop buying a lot of the vintage / collectible stuff that yard sales and thrift stores often have and the newer generations (who were not using Ebay 10-15 years ago) are now using Ebay and shopping for completely different items than what were commonly popular 10-15 years ago.
5) Add in a ton of extra factors that I have not mentioned or listed, and, you have a recipe for why sales might not be as good as they once were. I, of course, can't list every reason or name every algorithm issue that may exist. I can't go into every search engine issue, or every website flaw that I'm sure impacts visibility and our sales, but, I'm pretty sure that we all know by now that this is not a very well oiled machine, so, obviously sales going south and things going wrong from time to time (or being on a steady decline, even) is not out of the realm of possibility, but, this could be for so many different reasons. It could be a 50/50 combination of Ebay's fault vs the seller doing some trivial thing wrong such as being off on pricing, or not having good photos, or a good title, etc.
All in all, I think that there are so many different factors and elements that factor into sales being potentially slow, and, I see a lot of people sitting on the forums and speculating about what Ebay is doing wrong. "Ebay is doing this...", "Ebay is doing that." - OK. Even if Ebay is doing all of these aforementioned things that are wreaking havoc on our sales, we have absolutely no control over it. However, even if Ebay's system is at fault and is causing slow sales for us, I am fairly certain that if that is the case, then it is merely a piece of the puzzle. If the site itself is doing something to hinder our sales, then, we cannot control it. There are other pieces of the puzzle here to look at. If Ebay being wonky is only one piece of the puzzle as to why our sales are low, then we must re-evaluate the pieces of the puzzle that we can control. What can be control? Sourcing better items, changing keywords, taking better photos, writing better descriptions, having sales, adding promotions to items that aren't selling, advertising our Ebay stores on social media platforms, listing new items daily to try to bring in traffic, etc. I can't tell you how many times I'd list a brand new item and the buyer would message me to let me know that they saw my newly listed item, ended up looking through my store, saw some stuff that they liked, and ended up wanting to buy 5 items or so that have been in my store for ages. It happens all the time. I'll list something new every day, and, sometimes whoever buys the newly listed item will scan my store for other cool stuff, and, they'll end up buying an item that has been in my store for 5+ years that was otherwise not selling whatsoever beforehand.
While we may not be able to control everything about our selling experiences here on Ebay, and while we are all probably aware that there are many external factors that may weigh in on why sales are slow, let's not forget all the things that we can control and do have some power over and some say in.
Good luck to you all.
P.S: Before anyone comes at me with torches and pitchforks, no, I am not an Ebay cheerleader. I am not dismissing the issues Ebay does have. I am not 100% happy with my selling experience nor did I ever say that I was. Sometimes, the lack of sales on slow months really does get to me. I am fairly neutral because I'm not polarized to one side of the spectrum. I see so many polarized posts on the forums. There are some people that are 100% blaming Ebay for slow sales and there are some people who are 100% blaming sellers for the issues. Me? I'm somewhere in the middle, thinking that maybe the blame is 50/50 + blame should be given to all of the external factors that I mentioned that might be affecting things. I'm just trying to counteract whatever selling obstacles are thrown at me by doing things that are actually in my power that I have some form of control over, and, I just sort of wing it and hope for the best.
12-02-2019 10:21 PM
That is true -- plus when they did their revamping especially in the clothes category and the sizes and other items had to be all redone -- that didn't help either. Most sellers who I am talking with still have not recover. This will be their worse fourth quarter and it's not looking good for ebay with no CEO? People talk......and if you can't make it to pay ebay -- sellers are leaving and ebay no apologize for screwing things up in fourth quarter with promoted listings in two areas than taking that extra exposure away and the block ads on people's computers -- too many mistakes -- some may have benefited because they sell in antiques and collectibles and people buy from them all year long -- long tail for that -- and having more than one venue helps too where you don't have everything in one basket.
12-02-2019 11:15 PM
@yuzuha wrote:
@chapeau-noir wrote:
One thing charging listing fees does is it makes people think twice about listing any old thing AND letting it run forever. I don't have any problems with the listing up front fees.I agree and in fact wish that eBay would eliminate free listings entirely. It would go a long way towards cleaning up the site if people had to actually put some thought into what they were listing/their prices instead of being able to toss 50 things up with no regard to their actual chances of selling.
That wouldn't work for me. I have no idea what anyone will buy anymore. They seem to buy the oddest things these days.
12-03-2019 02:30 AM - edited 12-03-2019 02:34 AM
@yuzuha wrote:Exactly-- for $7.95 a month, you can list 100 items, and if even one or two of those sell, then you've made back the money you invested in the store.
Not really. The fees on a $20 sale amount to around $4.50 already. Now you want to double it by charging $8 for a store. Do you know any small sellers getting toys for 42% off, let alone enough past that turn a profit? I sure don't (and I had multiple distributor accounts). Your idea would wipe out huge sections of that market and likely others.
eBay's biggest problem, besides coddling Chinese fraudsters, is its outrageous fee structure.
eBay 1998: 25c listings, 2% FVF on items, open payments, open feedback, free relists - exploded overnight
eBay 201X: 10% FVF on items plus shipping, forced 4% fee payments, cancellation fees, return fees, penalty fees, now tax collection fees - death spiral
eBay wants to be a new merchandise store like Amazon but it wants a fee structure that only works with yard sale finds and fire sale closeouts. Their constant refrain is "dur, it's not the 90s anymore." They're right. Nobody is getting $500 boxes of G1/1984 TransFormers for $5 from moms cleaning out the attic. Management can wish, blame, threaten, and punish all it wants but it won't change reality. That pie they're taking larger and larger slices of will just keep shrinking until they're taking 100% of $0 and they'll have nobody to blame but themselves.
12-03-2019 03:56 AM
Its not up to you or Ebay what chances are for an item selling. Odd items of no value to one may have value to others. Fees are bad enough without charging for each item.
12-03-2019 03:58 AM
You are exactly right. I have learned a long time ago that just because I am not interested in a certain item, doesnt mean others may be.
12-03-2019 04:09 AM
Lazy sellers are none of your biz...and if you get your store money back only...what about all the effort in listing, shipping etc. Does your time count ? The Elephant in the Ebay room is just that. I mean how many on here even make minimum wage with the time they put in ? Very few ! Fees are too high as it is. Its irrelevant what other platforms charge...some charge zero fees...period..others 2-3 pct...plus you can take any form off payment you want. IMO there should be no listing fees at all.
12-03-2019 08:13 AM
If your items are selling within minutes of listing, you either got lucky or underpriced them. If this is a business for you, consider raising your prices.
Similar to you, I typically sell the majority of items within the first listing or two. If I did things correctly, then I made money with that sell through rate. The ones that didn't sell during that time period are now remnants. I make half my money off of remnants that have been listed on ebay for 6 months or more.
While the market does shift and it's possible that there are some things that no one wants, if people are selling $1k of remnants per month for years and their sales fall off a cliff, it is reasonable to assume something other than the merchandise is to blame.
I'm not disagreeing with you and to some extent I think the complaints people make about slow sales are ridiculous, but the pattern you describe for your sales does not cover all cases.
Also, by the way, if you are treating this as a business, you should constantly reevaluate your current stock and remove or reprice things that are not competitive or unlikely to sell. I frequently de-list or repackage large pain in the ass to ship items and items that are no longer worth selling online while I let smaller and more valuable items stay listed because they might sell eventually.
12-03-2019 08:41 AM
By the way, no matter what ebay tries to tell you, prices in some cases are not elastic.
Lowering a price for an obscure item is not going to make it more likely to sell.
If you assume that ebay is cycling in visibility of items, then the business response is to NOT try to have the lowest price because it's quite possible you will have the lowest VISIBLE price at some point and your item will sell then if there is a buyer for it.
Also consider selling items that are unique enough that you aren't competing with a large number of other sellers which might increase the visibility of your items.
12-03-2019 01:13 PM
@yuzuha wrote:Exactly-- for $7.95 a month, you can list 100 items, and if even one or two of those sell, then you've made back the money you invested in the store.
eBay already has far too many items listed; the last thing it needs is more listings that are never going to sell. There are some listings in my categories that have been there for literal years because the seller has them priced at 3-4 times the market price for those items. They will NEVER sell because they are not worth that much-- I know, because I've sold over a dozen of the exact same items at the actual going market rate. All they do is clutter up the search and turn buyers off from eBay because it gives them the impression that eBay sellers are unreasonable.
It would also go a long way towards weeding out the lazy sellers who can't be bothered to put even a minimum of effort into their pictures and descriptions. They might actually get a clue if they had to pay a fee every month for things that weren't selling.
There's software design principles that are intended to help sort out situations like this, to gauge interest and rank items accordingly, so that the items that you aren't interested in don't show up often.
The problem is, eBay's changes for the last 2 years have pulled them further away from this direction, instead of closer.
Then Sponsored Listings throw a wrench in the entire ordeal.
Think of it from a design perspective. How could they ever design a system to intelligently determine which items should be ranked higher or lower, when they have a system designed around bringing higher visibility to higher priced items?
As a life long software designer, I can say with 100% honesty that there's many design issues with eBay's implementation.
This isn't even considering the damage that such features do to the market itself. EBay's one advantage over major competitors used to be it's pricing. Is it a surprise that eBay's GMV is dropping now when pricing is no longer the advantage it used to be...?
In addition to the policies that are taking higher and higher %'s out of sellers... something has to give somewhere, and these changes have brought up prices on eBay.
Don't get it twisted. No matter what side of the fence you're on in terms of eBay; whether you're happy with your performance, or having issues... the current design of eBay has only brought less traffic to your listings and we would ALL be doing better (meaning the marketplace of eBay itself would be doing better) if these things were reassessed.
Those issues have caused far more damage to eBay than eBay's poor sorting of listings that are not desired (Which they do have a system in place for anyway; the stagnant listing system. Which is another example of poor design, as it doesn't achieve the intended purpose, and has many side effects).
12-03-2019 01:15 PM - edited 12-03-2019 01:16 PM
@rpalma wrote:
By the way, no matter what ebay tries to tell you, prices in some cases are not elastic.
Lowering a price for an obscure item is not going to make it more likely to sell.
If you assume that ebay is cycling in visibility of items, then the business response is to NOT try to have the lowest price because it's quite possible you will have the lowest VISIBLE price at some point and your item will sell then if there is a buyer for it.
Also consider selling items that are unique enough that you aren't competing with a large number of other sellers which might increase the visibility of your items.
This is the honest truth nowadays. Some still argue basic supply and demand, but it is so far from the truth of how eBay works.
I've said it over and over, they wouldn't be making any money out of Sponsored Listings if this was the case.
Yet there's multiple software updates this year alone where they have changed things to have the entire site designed around Sponsored Listings.
Make no mistakes, this means the site is designed around selling things above their cheapest price.
And this is one of the reasons that eBay is struggling more and more as time goes on.
Is it a coincidence that their GMV began dropping the exact quarter that they started making changes going in this direction?
12-04-2019 02:11 AM
@zamo-zuan wrote:This isn't even considering the damage that such features do to the market itself. EBay's one advantage over major competitors used to be it's pricing. Is it a surprise that eBay's GMV is dropping now when pricing is no longer the advantage it used to be...?
GMV is essentially going nowhere so all they care about is increasing margins on the same revenue base. They've given up on growth. You only have to look at the extent of the cost cutting over the last year or two to see where things are heading.
I agree with your assessment that they have completely and utterly botched everything from a design perspective. Fundamentally they are creating a negative customer experience. I regularly sell things via PL that I would consider overpriced relative to competitors, you can argue that is good for ebay and myself but long term it is a net negative for customer acquisition and retention. Every attempt to they have made to increase conversion rates is having the reverse effect, buyer's now question everything and are being fed misleading shipping ETAs with fictitious guarantees. When you feed buyers ETAs that have been purposefully manipulated by overriding the seller and carriers handling time you are just pissing customers off unnecessarily in an attempt to earn your Amazon badge. Your actually quality of service counts of nothing these days and I regularly see alternate accounts from the slimiest of sellers in my niche ranking at the top of searches because of promoted listings. They have literally killed the ROI proposition here.
All this while ebay is on a multi-year journey to implement something as basic as product attributes. I mean jesus we knocked that out in a few months on a site that had close to 10 million listings. There are enough content aggregators out there serving most consumer segments, go spend a few dollars and get something implemented. They make everything look like rocket science here. Ebay is literally reinventing the ecommerce wheel and doing an awful job of it. Oh and all the grey hat tactics to inflate the product catalog with phony listings is going to result in one hell of an SEO penalty before long. Who advises them on this? It's like they respond to every spam email from SEO marketers from India.
12-04-2019 08:45 AM
@hlmacdon wrote:
@zamo-zuan wrote:This isn't even considering the damage that such features do to the market itself. EBay's one advantage over major competitors used to be it's pricing. Is it a surprise that eBay's GMV is dropping now when pricing is no longer the advantage it used to be...?
GMV is essentially going nowhere so all they care about is increasing margins on the same revenue base. They've given up on growth. You only have to look at the extent of the cost cutting over the last year or two to see where things are heading.
I agree with your assessment that they have completely and utterly botched everything from a design perspective. Fundamentally they are creating a negative customer experience. I regularly sell things via PL that I would consider overpriced relative to competitors, you can argue that is good for ebay and myself but long term it is a net negative for customer acquisition and retention. Every attempt to they have made to increase conversion rates is having the reverse effect, buyer's now question everything and are being fed misleading shipping ETAs with fictitious guarantees. When you feed buyers ETAs that have been purposefully manipulated by overriding the seller and carriers handling time you are just pissing customers off unnecessarily in an attempt to earn your Amazon badge. Your actually quality of service counts of nothing these days and I regularly see alternate accounts from the slimiest of sellers in my niche ranking at the top of searches because of promoted listings. They have literally killed the ROI proposition here.
All this while ebay is on a multi-year journey to implement something as basic as product attributes. I mean jesus we knocked that out in a few months on a site that had close to 10 million listings. There are enough content aggregators out there serving most consumer segments, go spend a few dollars and get something implemented. They make everything look like rocket science here. Ebay is literally reinventing the ecommerce wheel and doing an awful job of it. Oh and all the grey hat tactics to inflate the product catalog with phony listings is going to result in one hell of an SEO penalty before long. Who advises them on this? It's like they respond to every spam email from SEO marketers from India.
In response to the first paragraph, I could understand if they've given up on trying to encourage growth to a point. But in this situation, they're literally leading the path towards a *drop*, which is far worse than simply not encouraging growth. It turns the system in to an unsustainable one.
Banking as much as they could during a drop that is accelerating is a very scary situation to be in.
12-20-2019 11:35 AM
The op knows the answer to the problem on eBay but neither he nor anyone else wants to accept it. It's china. eBay as well as just about everyone else has set things up so China is going to be the main consumer seller gloablly. This is why they passed state taxes in USA. Well let me explain you know we all got internet for savings. Well. Now those savings are almost gone due to added taxes now. Increasing ship prices as well. .. here comes china. eBay and Amazon has set things up, even did deals with banks and created a special company called speedpak which allows china to pay Penny's to ship things globally. Look it up! China doesn't pay taxes or shipping like anyone else. It's all planned. Now if you doubt me..take a real good look at the search results. I'm getting mostly china sells come up. To make it worse eBay has set up a system so that you can purchase a ranking of your items. You can search all day for what you want but if you haven't paid enough to get to a top tier you're never going to bee seen unless it's a special item . It's all planned.
Since a decade now they been planning this. The feedback system is rigged. The refund system rigged . Now the searches rigged. All geared to China sellers. . Nothing anyof us can do. It's going to be this way for everything now. To put this in we all know most things we buy in stores are from china, but now we will be bring most online items from china as well. All planned. No way out of it.
We will see mostly cheap junk now. Prices will fluctuate till people realize what's goin on. But eBay is over as for as us sellers. eBay didn't tell anybody cause they know what they did is wrong. ..
Good luck. .
12-20-2019 05:09 PM