Solution to the "refund for INR while order is in-transit" problem

[aldente28]

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks refunding buyers for INR cases while an order is still in-transit is a problem.

We live in an age of a deadly pandemic, state and county lockdowns, Covid-related mail delays, and as if that weren't enough, an administration that is literally slowing down the mail for political reasons.

Rather than giving buyers their money back when their order is delayed in the mail - often only to show up after they get their money back - how about ebay puts the money in escrow within their Managed Payments system. They control payments now. This seems easy enough to do.

1. A buyer files an INR for a late order where tracking indicates "in-transit"

2. ebay waits a reasonable amount of time

3. if no movement, ebay takes the purchase money and puts it in an escrow account

4. if after 3 weeks  (or whatever) the package indeed doesn't arrive, buyer gets the money

5, if after 3 weeks (or whatever) the package shows "delivered", money goes back to the seller

I trust we can all agree that refunding buyers for "in-transit" orders only to have that order delivered is a rather regrettable thing that everyone involved would like to prevent.

This escrow system puts everyone on notice, including the seller, who at least has the option to try to resolve the issue with USPS before some due date in order to not lose their money. If seller can do something to get the package delivered, problem solved. If not, at least there was an option to try, or to let it go if not worth it.

[vacheron_nl]

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What I propose sets times, dates, and expectations, giving back the control over their money to sellers. There are few things more toxicity-creating than having your money ripped away from you unjustly, and when it's done just prior to your product being delivered to a buyer, this is how it feels. A buyer gets my money AND my product why? Because the delivery service was late? And I had nothing to say about it? Honestly, I don't understand how this is allowed to happen.

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This is how I feel as well. Japan, Australia, New Zealand and also parts of the USA have serious shipping issues. We have parcels 7 weeks without tracking, refunded and then showing being delivered. Also cases that get a positive feedback but are not closed by the buyer. Even registered mail does not protect sellers when you do refund yourself. Appeals are also not granted because the item did not arrive in time before the case was closed. My blacklist of buyers because of this is getting longer each week and that's a shame.

[ameri_kiwi92]

IMHO Ebay needs to greatly extend the permissible overdue time given the prevailing extreme circumstances.    I had one that was delivered two and a half months late and had sat without activity at one location for a full six weeks.

And Ebay has been barring sellers for "too many late deliveries"    I cannot see any rational reason whatsoever for doing that when tracking information shows the seller has mailed the package on time!

I had been contemplated starting selling on Ebay but am not about to until and if this problem is resolved in a way that protects sellers from suffering from problems caused by the USPS.  (most especially considering who has been appointed to head the USPS and who it was that appointed them).

[little*blackdog]

What a fabulously great idea!

[ameri_kiwi92]

Under normal circumstances it would be reasonable.  But these are not, by the wildest stretch of the most fevered imagination, normal times.   Under current circumstances it is highly unreasonable and totally inappropriate.

The very least Ebay could do is to extend the time allowed.   AND they need to warn buyers about the current situation.       To make no adjustments and just let buyers take all the flack from problems caused by the USPS is totally unacceptable.

Disclosure:  I am a buyer not a seller.    But I am deeply concerned to see sellers treated this unfairly.    I WAS considering starting to sell on Ebay but will not until and if this problem is satisfactorily resolved in a way that gives reasonable protection to sellers.   There are other venues to sell in.

[soh.maryl]

On the other hand, we're not eBay "employees".  There's a distinct difference between our relationship with eBay as opposed to that of Amazon employees to Amazon.  People tend to forget that.  

[ameri_kiwi92]

But Ebay needs to extend the period far past three weeks.  I've had one item delivered 2 1/2 months late and the tracking never indicated it was delivered.  I contacted the seller to let him know it had arrived despite the failure of tracking to register the delivery (which I always do as this FREQUENTLY happens!)

I suspect that many buyers say nothing and just consider getting it free "compensation" for late delivery.    The terrible part is that sellers have no way of knowing it actually got delivered.

Fortunately for me, the products I am getting ready to sell have a good market locally and I don't have to use the internet at all.   While I may get lower prices,   that's probably more than compensated for by the problems with non or late delivery I'd have to suffer from on Ebay.  

[boutiquefashion304]

This happened to me late last month. International sale to Canada, in transit, but she opened a INR case even though the tracking showed I shipped the next day and that it was in transit. They closed it immediately giving her a refund. It still shows in transit and I opened an inquiry. Won't sell International right now. Too risky.

[ameri_kiwi92]

SIZE.     Sellers on ebay, even the largest ones of all, are not remotely the size of Amazon.   So whoever they use, Amazon has massive clout which ebay sellers don't.

If some carrier wanted to, for example, delay deliveries as part of a trade war with China, they would not dare mess with Amazon's deliveries.   But ebay sellers would be fair game     UNLESS Ebay took a strong stand to protect them, of course.

So the question becomes, what is Ebay gonna DO about this?

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@aldente28 wrote:

1. A buyer files an INR for a late order where tracking indicates "in-transit"

2. ebay waits a reasonable amount of time

3. if no movement, ebay takes the purchase money and puts it in an escrow account

4. if after 3 weeks  (or whatever) the package indeed doesn't arrive, buyer gets the money

5, if after 3 weeks (or whatever) the package shows "delivered", money goes back to the seller

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Brilliant solution!

Unfortunately, it makes too much sense, therefore TPTB at Ebay will not consider it.

[ameri_kiwi92]

Peeing in bottles (nor ANY drug test) has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

I've lost two jobs over false positives on drug tests (used poppy seeds in cooking and hemp seed oil on salads - neither has remotely enough of the "active ingredient" to have any discernible effect - only trace amounts, but enough to cause false positives on hypersensitive drugs tests (and they all are).      

A competent employer should be able to tell from direct observation if an employee's performance is impaired for whatever reason.    Drug tests serve no useful purpose other than to increase pharmaceutical's profits.   I've worked on jobs where some people used drugs to the degree that their performance was notably impaired but they got no consequences because they'd learned how to game the drug tests (and their employers were too incompetent to pick up on the impaired performance - or too busing firing people for using hemp seed oil or poppy seeds).

[ameri_kiwi92]

I worked for the USPS many years ago.   Problems with delivery can be very localized:   it may be a problem with the nearest hub, the local post office or the carrier that serves your route.     Using an average in such a situation is IMHO highly inappropriate.

[ameri_kiwi92]

I totally agree.  But it is critical that the escrow period be appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and, under the current circumstances, 3 weeks is far too short.

ANother alternative is that ebay should require the USPS to INSURE the delivery:  if the delivery is past the escrow date then it should be the USPS that has to bear the cost, not the seller.        If ebay set up such an arrangement you could bet your bottom dollar that there would be far fewer deliveries.   (and almost certainly a new head of the USPS as well)

[ameri_kiwi92]

FWIW,   I received an item 2 1/2 months overdue.  I had entered a case when it was six weeks at the same location with no further tracking.    The next day it showed it moved to a new location so I gave the seller more time and kept on giving him more time until it finally arrived.   So he never had to give a refund.  (the tracking did NOT show delivery but I informed him it had been).

I was unable to give him positive feedback because I'd entered a case (?!?) and he was unable to give me positive feedback for the same reason (?!?)   But at least he didn't have to refund something that was delivered.

You have to wonder how many customers get a package after a refund, note the tracking didn't register the delivery and then just keep their mouths shut.  I've had about 10% of my ebay orders delivered without the tracking ever indicating that.  The only way the sellers know is when I give them positive feedback and note delivery or contact them directly.

And it's always USPS that botches the tracking.

[aldente28]

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@ameri_kiwi92 wrote:

To make no adjustments and just let buyers take all the flack from problems caused by the USPS is totally unacceptable.

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I'm not sure if you meant sellers, but beyond that, it seems reasonable to presume that a "least damage" solution exists here. Least damage to buyers and sellers. It feels wrong to have sellers paying money on one side of the equation on balance with buyers time expectation on the other.

[aldente28]

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@ameri_kiwi92 wrote:

I worked for the USPS many years ago.   Problems with delivery can be very localized:   it may be a problem with the nearest hub, the local post office or the carrier that serves your route.     Using an average in such a situation is IMHO highly inappropriate.

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Ebay collects what I imagine is a massive amount of USPS delivery information throughout the country for Guaranteed Delivery and estimated delivery time. These, based on my understanding, are based on actual data received from package transit for the locations involved.

I think ebay could use this to determine what "a reasonable amount of time" to wait before taking the money and putting it in escrow. Then a standard amount of time could be assigned before waiting to refund the money to either the buyer or the seller.