Solution to the "refund for INR while order is in-transit" problem

[aldente28]

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks refunding buyers for INR cases while an order is still in-transit is a problem.

We live in an age of a deadly pandemic, state and county lockdowns, Covid-related mail delays, and as if that weren't enough, an administration that is literally slowing down the mail for political reasons.

Rather than giving buyers their money back when their order is delayed in the mail - often only to show up after they get their money back - how about ebay puts the money in escrow within their Managed Payments system. They control payments now. This seems easy enough to do.

1. A buyer files an INR for a late order where tracking indicates "in-transit"

2. ebay waits a reasonable amount of time

3. if no movement, ebay takes the purchase money and puts it in an escrow account

4. if after 3 weeks  (or whatever) the package indeed doesn't arrive, buyer gets the money

5, if after 3 weeks (or whatever) the package shows "delivered", money goes back to the seller

I trust we can all agree that refunding buyers for "in-transit" orders only to have that order delivered is a rather regrettable thing that everyone involved would like to prevent.

This escrow system puts everyone on notice, including the seller, who at least has the option to try to resolve the issue with USPS before some due date in order to not lose their money. If seller can do something to get the package delivered, problem solved. If not, at least there was an option to try, or to let it go if not worth it.

[evry1nositswindy]

Agreed.  I had a package take nearly a month.  I had to refund because a case was opened.  I still watched the tracking and once it was delivered I messaged the buyer.  They were super happy with their books and paid via PayPal invoice.  I was still out double fees though, but I got paid for my items that they FINALLY received.  I am babysitting all of my media mail tracking and letting my buyers know I am on top of it.  Knock wood, this is the only case that has been opened since I started doing that.

[golfingaddict]

You can come up with all the good ideas and systems in the world and it won't matter.

eBay simply does not care and will not change this because it does not affect them.    

eBay wants happy buyers and they could care less if sellers lose money or merchandise and/or both.

They continue with their false and unrealistic delivery estimates (that don't even match the Post office estimated deliveries)  They use historical data instead of our actual handling time and they give buyers all the extra time in the world, but hold fast to pre-pandemic shipping estimates and delivery times.

Its time to give up.  It's hopeless.  We will continue to lose money and we will continue to get INR cases opened and closed in the buyers favor.  

ebay has pretty much made it clear that they are going to give lip service "protect our seller rating" help, rather than the real help that we need.    

[aldente28]

More detail:

1. Buyer files an INR for a late order where tracking indicates "in-transit"

Happens all the time. No explanation needed.

2. ebay waits a reasonable amount of time

Call it an extension to see if the delay is routine and self-resolving. Make it a set amount of time, or based on how many days it has been en route, or how many days since tracking updated. Whatever.  If ebay can figure out estimated delivery, this is totally doable

3. if no movement, ebay takes the purchase money and puts it in an escrow account

Use Managed Payments. Retrieve the funds, notify both the buyer and seller. Buyer: Your funds are being held in escrow. If your order does not arrive by X, you will receive a refund. Seller: Your funds are being held for the buyer because their order has not arrived. You have Y days to resolve the issue with the carrier. If the package is delivered in this time frame, your funds will be returned. If not, the funds will be returned to the buyer.

I would totally buy into this. It's reasonable, where the alternative is quite frankly unconscionable.

[aldente28]

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@golfingaddict wrote:

You can come up with all the good ideas and systems in the world and it won't matter.

eBay simply does not care and will not change this because it does not affect them.    

eBay wants happy buyers and they could care less if sellers lose money or merchandise and/or both. 

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Today on CNBC, ebay's CEO said he wants to build relationships with sellers, and he laid out lots of optimistic goals for buyers and sellers, including creating lasting relationships and an ecosystem conducive to growing the business.

I think some enterprising ebay employee could impress the CEO by solving this problem, which is easily among the top 5 toxicity creators in the community.

[rndcnc2000]

This is why I've stopped selling.  My hat is off to you sellers who hang in there but it's not for me,

[a_c_green]

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@evry1nositswindy wrote:

Agreed.  I had a package take nearly a month.  I had to refund because a case was opened.

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I wanted to raise this in a reply during the Weekly Chat today, but ran into computer problems here and missed the deadline. Anyhow, I had to refund a buyer last month after a package disappeared for almost three weeks while traveling from the Chicago origin sort facility to Phoenix, AZ. That was a first for me, and fortunately the buyer was good about it, but still, I had to refund.

As soon as I refunded, I filed a Package Intercept request with USPS, and sure enough, the thing reappeared about a week later. They intercepted it, I paid the fee ($14.65, payable only if they recover the package), and saved most of a $75 sale by getting it back.

[aldente28]

I still think this is a viable solution to the current USPS delay/INR penalty issue.

If in step 5 the package is delivered and the money goes back to the seller, the INR is also removed, or it is removed from the pool that determines Seller Metrics, or whatever, but the point is, it doesn't count in any way against the seller.

[gwzcomps]

I still think all these problems would be avoidable if eBay quit playing childish games.  There is no beating Amazon prime shipping speeds.  Amazon is a totally different beast than eBay.  Even though there are different opinions about eBay failing hard at copying Amazon the truth in the matter is eBay isn't coming up with these wacky poorly implemented ideas on their own.  This site would be a lot better if eBay acted like an intelligent business and focused on their strengths.  In the meantime they will continue to carve off and sell the good bits while the rest rots.

[vintagecraze50]

Phoenix was hit hard with corona and that is where one of my packages got lost. Still gone and refunded the buyer.

[vintagecraze50]

Not ONE of my prime packages got delayed during this pandemic. All arrived super quick. What are they doing to be so incredibly effiecient.

[gwzcomps]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

Not ONE of my prime packages got delayed during this pandemic. All arrived super quick. What are they doing to be so incredibly effiecient.

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They have their own supply chain, jet planes, and distributed warehouses.  Basically billions and billions of dollars of shipping infrastructure.  Also they make their employees pee in bottles supposedly.  Thankfully eBay doesn't make us do that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/19/map-of-amazon-warehouses.html

[aldente28]

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@gwzcomps wrote:

I still think all these problems would be avoidable if eBay quit playing childish games.  There is no beating Amazon prime shipping speeds.  Amazon is a totally different beast than eBay.  Even though there are different opinions about eBay failing hard at copying Amazon the truth in the matter is eBay isn't coming up with these wacky poorly implemented ideas on their own.  This site would be a lot better if eBay acted like an intelligent business and focused on their strengths.  In the meantime they will continue to carve off and sell the good bits while the rest rots.

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People (to my amazement) often don't distinguish between ebay and ebay sellers, which makes "guaranteeing" delivery so fraught with peril, and holding sellers accountable for late deliveries seems even more perilous. Perhaps Amazon can do it because they own (or control) their entire distribution system. I learned just recently that they have airplanes. Who knew? (probably everyone but me, actually)

But I do know there are no ebay airplanes. Still, I have absolutely no issue with ebay wanting to guarantee delivery dates. I think the system they came up with is kind of ingenious, actually. But dinging a seller's Service Metrics when USPS doesn't meet ebay's expectation is two levels of wrong in my view.

Now, ebay may defend Service Metrics as an "average", and that problems like USPS delays affect everyone equally, but this is false. Issues don't affect everyone equally, and I am a living example. Academically, the policy makes sense. But things can and do work differently than planned when unleashed into the real world.

I am in the penalty box with my Service Metrics, despite 100% on-time, same-day shipping, and I am looking for signs of help from ebay. I am hopeful help will come, but I don't know. I check my Service Metrics daily. I see no signs of relief yet.

Sadly, I wonder if relief will come only when enough people are affected by it.

[gwzcomps]

That is a good point.  Why doesn't eBay ding USPS for delivery delays instead of the sellers?  eBay has a contract with USPS.  Why not flex it if the people at eBay want better delivery services.

[aldente28]

My final point on this proposal is that the idea of putting money in "escrow" for a defined amount of time is to (a) give the seller (or buyer) the chance to contact the carrier and have the package traced, located, and ultimately delivered, and to (b) change the current system where everything is a black box and sellers don't know what's happening, assume they are "protected" because how could their money possibly be taken from them while a package is on its way, and then they are suddenly hit with a buyer refund out of the blue.

What I propose sets times, dates, and expectations, giving back the control over their money to sellers. There are few things more toxicity-creating than having your money ripped away from you unjustly, and when it's done just prior to your product being delivered to a buyer, this is how it feels. A buyer gets my money AND my product why? Because the delivery service was late? And I had nothing to say about it? Honestly, I don't understand how this is allowed to happen. I think this escrow idea is a way to significantly reduce both the occurrence of it and the effect of it when it does happen.

Vote this topic up if you think this is a good idea. My hope is that it makes its way to someone at ebay and maybe sparks some interest or ideas that will lead to positive change.