Sold an item, and the buyer sent a cheap item through Amazon back, then used the tracking number

[zuked]

So the gist is I sold a gopro on Ebay for $270.  Buyer got it but said there was something wrong with it.  It was fine when I used it last, but after a bit of back and forth, I agree to take a return.  I buy the Ebay return label, and don't hear a thing for a week.  In addition to the label never being used.

During that week, I receive a package of a cheap calculator from Amazon that I didn't order.  I call them up, and they say someone gifted it to me, but won't tell me who.

A few days later, I get a claims or whatever from Ebay saying the buyer sent the item, that I received it, and that they are refunding the buyer.  

I never received the item, so I email Ebay customer service (since the whatever complaint ticket is already closed and I can't respond to it.)  Ebay customer service says they have a tracking that the item was delivered and gives me the tracking number.  And of course the tracking number provided is the Amazon "gift" tracking number.  

So I have emailed customer service and tell them what happened, and they say to send in a declaration that I did not receive it, which I do through the automated system.  here I think everything is going well.

Now fast forward a few days, and Ebay says they didn't receive the declaration and again favor the buyer.  I also notice that this is under a different SR number than the one I originally sent.

I again send all the information, and they keep going back to the tracking number shows it was delivered.  Now I'm on at least 4 SR numbers, which I listed to them, I've talked to a few different people via email, and none of them seems to want to look at anything but the tracking number and say it was delivered.  

Am I screwed?  Is this how eBay works and rewards scammers?

[mapleka_0]

I'm guessing the buyer doesn't have a printer (and doesn't realize they don't need one) OR they live far away from a post office and it was cheaper for them to purchase a trinket online and send it to you in lieu of the actual return?  I mean because they could've just sent back an empty box too...

Why go through spending an extra $5 on a calculator, perhaps the buyer didn't have a box to send back?

The real problem of course, is the buyer still has the $270 gaming station and I can almost guarantee it is working great.

[autopiacarcare]

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@zuked wrote:

Brian.  Thanks for all the help you put in to this issue I had.  I just received the payment today.  It definitely would not have been possible without your intervention.  

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@zuked  so glad to hear this had a happy ending for you!

brian@ebay  thank you for your efforts and I wholeheartedly agree with @ittybitnot that it would be very helpful to have some guidance for other sellers who find themselves in these situations.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@mapleka_0 wrote:

Why go through spending an extra $5 on a calculator, perhaps the buyer didn't have a box to send back?

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Because it was a scam from the beginning. Spend $5 to get a free game  console. Yes, they originally spent the money, but they knew they could get that back if they "returned" the item, which they had no intention of doing.

Hopefully Ebay will modify the new QR code shipping label thing to include return labels. Then buyers will have no excuse to not use an Ebay provided label. This type of scam would go away if Ebay only allowed an Ebay or seller provided label to be used.

[ittybitnot]

 the buyer doesn't need to have a printer, they can now 'scan' a barcode and take it to the Post Office 

I am afraid that would be pretty useless for a buyer who had the item forwarded to the Ukraine and needs to send back the (any) item to the US to use that label  or barcode scan provided.  

Requiring US buyers to use the label or the scan would certainly cut down on this scam on a "local in county" situation.  But, I doubt ebay is going to require that.   Even if they did, there is still the issue that it still doesn't matter what the buyer sends back.   Presently, they get a refund regardless of what is in the package, ebay label or not. 

[sonsbestdad]

What was the address of the other party that got the gopro? THat is the location of the criminal event and LEO's there should be involved.

[pellogreenssales]

It would not matter anyway. They can just photoshop in another address in the same zipcode. Look, there is a reason Ebay is a scammer paradise. They actively invite buyers to rip you off. Don't sell anything on ebay that you were not going to throw out or donate anyway. Or anything you can not afford to lose.

[zuked]

Okay, so now that on my end, this horrific nightmare was finally solved.  Just some pointers, on if this happens to anyone else.  (And I'm sure it will).

First, if you sell something, and suddenly receive a mystery package.  Save it and all the contents.  It's vital evidence you will need, and if you constantly receive Amazon packages, it's easy to just throw out the packages.  Which is probably what the scammers are hoping for.  If there was no packing slip, then call Amazon and get the information.  Get as much information as you can.  Try to get the information on who gifted it to you.  They will ask who gifted it to you, use the names on Ebay or Paypal (as they might be different)

Second, don't  start the appeal.  Their dates are screwy, but you have 30 days (I believe) to do an appeal, but once they receive the appeal, if you get someone that doesn't want to pay attention, they will close it seeing the item was delivered, and if it's a final decision, they will just keep telling you there is nothing they can do.  Make sure you are as detailed as possible with all the evidence before you start this process.  My advice, and maybe someone more experienced can confirm or deny, is to contact CS first.  Once you get customer service, ask them why the case was in the favor of the buyer.  At this point they should say something like tracking showed the item was returned.  Ask for that tracking number, since it won't be on anything you will see from Ebays site.  After you receive this information from Customer service, and you confirm it's that amazon tracking number, then tell them fraud is involved.  Explain everything that happened going in detail with dates and order numbers and everything you have, stressing that the tracking number provided was an Amazon shipment that was gifted to you.  At this point, it's an email thread (if you go that route), so you can send pictures to the CS agent, so send the package you received from Amazon, along with packing slip and any other evidence.  give them all the evidence you can.

Third, if things are going well (and things should, because from my experience, the initial customer service wants to listen.  It's the appeals people that don't seem to want to rule in your favor), they will ask for a signed declaration.  This is what got me.  They say you have 7 days to get Ebay the signed declaration.  They have an online document uploader for you to submit the documentation.  In my case, I did it the moment I got the email from them.  When you submit the document, the only message you will get is that you successfully submitted the document.  Nothing else, just that message.  I think this is a major flaw in their system.  You get notified if you sell something, if you post something up for sale, if you bid.  But if you send an important document, no confirmation number, no email saying the document was submitted.  I waited, and 5 days later they emailed me saying they didn't receive my documentation and they closed the case in favor of the buyer.  After that, no matter how much I talked to customer service they would not listen.  Be persistent.  Once you send them the documentation, email them back and get confirmation that they not only received it, but can view it.  (a few weeks after they closed my case, I received an email that said they couldn't read the document)  If they don't email you back, send the documentation again, and again ask for confirmation.  Be persistent, because if they close the case on you, you are in trouble.  If they still don't email you, call them.  This is tricky because they make it difficult to get on the phone with people.   If you go to contact us/Selling/Appeal a decision.  It will only give you email options.  But if you go to contact us/Selling/anything else but appeal, there will be a Have us Call You option.  Make sure they have all the information well before any deadlines they state.  

At this point, you are just on a hope and a prayer that Ebay see's the logic and evidence you have presented, and will rule in your favor.  

Good luck, even though luck shouldn't be needed.

[kako_5344]

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@zuked wrote:

they will ask for a signed declaration.  This is what got me. They say you have 7 days to get Ebay the signed declaration. They have an online document uploader for you to submit the documentation.

In my case, I did it the moment I got the email from them.

I waited, and 5 days later they emailed me saying they didn't receive my documentation and they closed the case in favor of the buyer. After that

I received an email that said they couldn't read the document

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How @zuked did Brian going in another direction that CS was not looped in solve this for you, since they couldn't read the affidavit that they didn't receive?

[wastingtime101]

Great advice, zuked. Thanks for posting. I know a lot of sellers that react immediately and don't take enough time to thing things through before plowing ahead. With eBay and appeals, thinking things through is important.

Glad this worked out in your favor, man. I hope you reported the scammer so that's one more step closer to their suspension.

[mikeystoyz]

I believe that amazon shows you what you got.

[penguins_dont_fly]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

Can someone explain to me why the buyer even has an option to use their own label? 

There are instances where a seller is not required to send a return label.  An example would be if a seller accepts returns (for any reason) and a buyer wants to return something for a remorse reason.  These would include changed my mind, found it cheaper elsewhere, don't like it, etc.  These sorts of returns would involve the buyer providing their own label. 

In the case of international sales, a seller cannot provide a label from an international destination, but must send money in advance to pay for return shipping for a 'not as described claim'.  This also holds true if the ebay GSP is used.  When a freight forwarder is involved, the seller need only provide a label from the US location. 

Yes, it seems some of the problems with these fraudulent returns would be solved if it required the buyer to use the label provided, but that would be throwing those buyers under the bus who claim they don't have a printer.   On ebay, fraudulent returns are a historically the seller's problem. 

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I just wanted to adress the part in blue up there.

eBay provides a label for domestic remorse returns.  The buyer pays for it and prints it through the Returns screen.

As for the orange, eBay is rolling out QR codes that can be scanned at the USPS counter.  The Post Office prints the label and attaches it to the package,

Right now this is only for sales ... but hopefully will be rolled out for returns fairly quickly.

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/qr-code-for-ebay-labels.html

https://www.usps.com/business/label-broker.htm

[crammedclosets50]

This is a very unfortunate transaction for you. I have had a couple like that and it makes me just want to load up all my stuff and take it to Good Will, and close my ebay account. However, if you have not reached that point, I find it is helpful to resolve issues like this with a phone call. It's much easier to explain the situation to the ebay person and they can look up everything on your account as you discuss it. Also, if you take a picture of what was sent back to you from Amazon,  they can give you a way to send the picture to them of the item you received, and compare it to the picture of what you actually sold. This situation should be a no-brainer. Good luck!  cindy

[ittybitnot]

eBay provides a label for domestic remorse returns.  The buyer pays for it and prints it.

Good to know, thank you!!!

eBay is rolling out QR codes that can be scanned at the USPS counter. 

Is this procedure only for prepaid labels? That would require a buyer have a smartphone AND a trip to the PO? 

[crammedclosets50]

The buyer didn't actually spend $5 on a trinket- it just came out of the $270 refund which they got to keep, as well as the original item.  

[ittybitnot]

they can give you a way to send the picture to them of the item you received, and compare it to the picture of what you actually sold. 

Actually, it doesn't matter much what a seller receives back.  eBay does not entertain such evidence anymore.