Sold an item, and the buyer sent a cheap item through Amazon back, then used the tracking number

[zuked]

So the gist is I sold a gopro on Ebay for $270.  Buyer got it but said there was something wrong with it.  It was fine when I used it last, but after a bit of back and forth, I agree to take a return.  I buy the Ebay return label, and don't hear a thing for a week.  In addition to the label never being used.

During that week, I receive a package of a cheap calculator from Amazon that I didn't order.  I call them up, and they say someone gifted it to me, but won't tell me who.

A few days later, I get a claims or whatever from Ebay saying the buyer sent the item, that I received it, and that they are refunding the buyer.  

I never received the item, so I email Ebay customer service (since the whatever complaint ticket is already closed and I can't respond to it.)  Ebay customer service says they have a tracking that the item was delivered and gives me the tracking number.  And of course the tracking number provided is the Amazon "gift" tracking number.  

So I have emailed customer service and tell them what happened, and they say to send in a declaration that I did not receive it, which I do through the automated system.  here I think everything is going well.

Now fast forward a few days, and Ebay says they didn't receive the declaration and again favor the buyer.  I also notice that this is under a different SR number than the one I originally sent.

I again send all the information, and they keep going back to the tracking number shows it was delivered.  Now I'm on at least 4 SR numbers, which I listed to them, I've talked to a few different people via email, and none of them seems to want to look at anything but the tracking number and say it was delivered.  

Am I screwed?  Is this how eBay works and rewards scammers?

[coffeebean832]

brian@ebay- what else should this seller do when CS is giving them the run around?

[autopiacarcare]

@zuked  - We were hit with a similar scam last year by a repeat scammer who used guest checkout to circumvent blocked buyer list.  https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Targeted-By-Malicious-Buyer-False-Returns/m-p/29512410/highlig...

In our cases, we never even received the "cheap item" from Amazon, the "buyer" provided return tracking that showed delivery to our zip code, but not our address and eBay sided with them and forced the refunds.  One was even forced after the return had previously been closed in our favor.

We were eventually able to get eBay to reverse the decisions, remove the defects and reimburse us for the refunds, but it took months of fighting and being very vocal about the issue to get it done.

Good luck to you!  I sincerely hope you are able to get eBay to give you a satisfactory resolution on this.   Happy to discuss how we handled our situation in more detail as well if it wold be helpful to you - feel free to PM.

[backroomnoir]

I'd call in and ask to speak to a manager.  I've found the email reps are really, well, not helpful.  They don't seem to know eBay policy very well.

[zuked]

This is how I think they circumvented the amazon TBA, since I'm an Amazon junkie.

The TBA or Amazon's logistic services are only used when sending things through their warehouse.  I.e. Prime items.  But if you select on an item that you want to purchase, if you go below the buy it now and add cart items, it'll say something like New (22) Prime Free Shipping.  If you click on that, it'll take you to each individual seller.  What you would do is go down that list, until you find a seller that does not ship from Amazon.com.  You gift an item from that merchant, and they will send it to you from their stores.  And thus use USPS or UPS or Fed Ex and not amazon.  

[bargainnation]

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@zuked wrote:

This is how I think they circumvented the amazon TBA, since I'm an Amazon junkie.

The TBA or Amazon's logistic services are only used when sending things through their warehouse.  I.e. Prime items.  But if you select on an item that you want to purchase, if you go below the buy it now and add cart items, it'll say something like New (22) Prime Free Shipping.  If you click on that, it'll take you to each individual seller.  What you would do is go down that list, until you find a seller that does not ship from Amazon.com.  You gift an item from that merchant, and they will send it to you from their stores.  And thus use USPS or UPS or Fed Ex and not amazon.  

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 I'm not an Amazon junkie but I see what you're saying. However my question is even if a buyer does this to circumvent the Amazon TBA wouldn't the shipping label still show the name and return address of the actual Amazon seller/store and not the name and return address of the eBay buyer?  If so this would still prove that the eBay buyer did not return the item that was shipped to them by the eBay seller but an item that they (eBay buyer) purchased from the Amazon web site.

Presumably the eBay buyer provides eBay with the tracking number provided to them by the Amazon seller. The eBay seller should only need to provide eBay with a copy of the shipping label to show the package is not from the eBay buyer but a third party. 

[zuked]

Yeah, I provided ebay with a photo of the package that showed the tracking number, store it originated from and weight.  Also of the packing slip that showed the store it originated from, order number, what was in the package, etc.  

It didn't seem to matter to ebay.  They just saw that the tracking number showed something was delivered and have continued to ignore the rest of the proof I provided.  

[bargainnation]

It seems like eBay is using bots which can't think and are just doing what they are programmed to do... if the tracking number matches the tracking number provided by buyer and the carrier shows that tracking number as delivered then as far as eBay is concerned the buyer has fulfilled their obligation. As anyone who can think and use common sense knows this is not correct. This is why eBay need eyeballs to look at these transactions to see what is obvious - - the eBay buyer did not return the seller's item but kept it and had something else sent to the eBay seller instead.

If eBay had to refund this money they would do more to fight this type of buyer scam.  It would take an eBay employee about 5 minutes to verify/confirm that the tracking number provided by the eBay buyer is not and could not be the same item that was shipped to them by the eBay seller. Therefore, there should be no refund to the buyer.

[ittybitnot]

 the eBay buyer did not return the seller's item but kept it and had something else sent to the eBay seller instead.

It appears to me that this scenario falls under ebay's old "faulty return" policy, where they consider buyer fraud to be simply "part of doing business on the net" and thus the seller's problem.  Not much different than if the buyer sent back a phone book instead of the laptop he/she was supposed to return, or simply an empty box instead of the Rolex sent by the seller. 

[animal-house-8]

Unfortunately your best bet right now is get law enforcement involved.  I had to do that once cause ebay just totally dropped the ball and it worked. My issue was less complicated than yours and ebay still could not figure it out. That does fall under mail fraud. 

[zuked]

So just an update.  Ebay's automated system and email system keeps seeing that the tracking number was delivered and siding with the buyer.  No matter how much I explain, all they do is look at the tracking number and closing the case.

I was finally able to get someone on the phone, and at least this person seemed to understand what was happening and escalated it.  Whether I get the call back is another story, and if the escalation works or not.

Also, getting someone on the phone was a chore in itself.  If you go down and chose seller, appeal/dispute a transaction.  It will never give you a phone option.  Only an email or automated chat option.  But if you chose the return and refunds, there is a phone option to call you back.  I used this to talk to a real person.  

[ittybitnot]

Thank you, @zuked  for the update.  Hoping this works out for you.  This scenario has been reported before, so know you are not alone and indeed this is not the first time ebay has heard of this scam.  Whether ebay will man up or not is the question. 

[101dolphns]

This has hurt Ebay in the long run, too. I refuse to sell anything I can not afford to lose. Cheap stuff.  Now, I get maybe 1 scammer every other year or so.  Best of luck.

[autopiacarcare]

@zuked  - glad to hear you finally got through to someone.  Hopefully they will be able to help and get this taken care of for you.

[mcdougle4248]

brian@ebay 

Just tagging you to this thread as an example of what @pburn might have been referring to in their post during today's Community Chat.

[pburn]

@zuked 

I posted about this in the Weekly Chat today. Here's a link to my post and the eBay staffer's response:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Community-Chat-October-14-1-00-pm-PT-Gener...

By the way, I haven't reviewed this thread again, so pardon me if this was already addressed. About this tracking number the buyer provided: was it a USPS tracking number? I ask because my Amazon purchases are all delivered by Amazon's delivery service. they use a tracking number that is specific to Amazon and "shouldn't" be confused by eBay's customer service reps as being from any other carrier.