So buyers can abuse ebay's return system with no repercussions?

[unicron9tj]

Someone bought a 1/6 figure outfit from me then an hour later asked me to cancel, then a few minutes after that sent me a message telling me not to cancel. After that he started asking if I had other things I could add to the sale, and I said no. He said fine, go ahead and send it. I had a feeling it would be trouble but did my part as I was supposed to.

Buyer gets the figure and asks to return it, saying there is a stain on the outfit. I told him there was no stain before I shipped, as my listing photos show, and it was sealed in package too, so I asked for a photo. The next day he sent a pic with a tiny dot of lint or something on the unopened outer package. I told him my listings are marked "no returns" but if there is a reason to return it I will anyway. I asked him to please try wiping off the little speck of whatever on the wrapper before we go straight to a return. His response was "No, I'll just wait and have ebay get me my refund. 

I told him there was no need to do that, and I accepted the return.

Later that same day I noticed he left me a negative feedback claiming I made up reasons not to take returns and harassed him, which is FAR from true.  I hit the report button on that and explained that the feedback statement was not true and the item I sent was as described.

Buyer then waited until the very last possible day to send the item back, and when I got it back, as expected, there was nothing at all on the package or the dress. It was in perfect condition just as I sent it. 

When I finished the return with the refund I had the option to report that I didn't agree with his reason for return and attached pics of the outfit I got back with no "stain" or anything else on it, then I called ebay and asked if there was anything else I could do about this abuse of returns. By telling me he'd just wait and have ebay refund him, he knew I had to do what he wanted whether it was right or not, because we all know ebay would just let him have his money back and keep the item. I had to pay his return shipping and got my first and only negative feedback just for trying to work out the problem with the guy then allowing the return despite it being based on an obvious lie.  The ebay rep said I did what I should do and they will review it. If they find that he did use a false reason to return, I'd be refunded my return shipping and his account would possibly be banned.

Seriously though... They just tell you what they think you want to hear and nothing will come of this, right? Buyers can just lie and do whatever, forcing a return for no reason but buyers remorse, I wont get that return shipping cost back, and I am stuck with the negative feedback. Do I have that about right?

[unicron9tj]

I don't know if it is allowed on this forum, but I'd really like to know what these other sites are. If I have any other options that have any decent selling potential, I'll ditch ebay in a second.

[equid0x]

I agree with everything you said. I was just having a conversation about this on another boards recently and I brought up the same point about valuing the time. Pretty much every legit business I have ever seen, the owners pay themselves a set salary. That is factored into their operating costs and prices just like everything else. 

Somebody was going on about buying stuff at Goodwill for $20 and "flipping" for $40 and I said, calculate the IRS mileage rate for your trip, and then pay yourself $20 for the hour you spent driving to get it, and tell me if you made any money. 

[unicron9tj]

I get that we sellers should be robots with no feelings, but that's not really me. It bugs me pretty bad when people are cruel, hateful, or just plain stupid then want me to eat the costs of their stupidity 100% with no fairness, no meeting in the middle, and consequences only to the seller who did nothing wrong.

I said I don't understand how this guy could be so morally bad that he not only lied about item not as described and essentially blackmailed me into accepting the return, but also waited till the end of the last possible day to ship the outfit back and left me a negative loaded with more lies, but if I had to guess how he could do that, I'd say to feel powerful, thinking he is teaching me a lesson. Clearly I should just apologize to a buyer who sets out to abuse ebay's return system and skrew me over, or they might flex their buyer power and make me regret it. That's a hard pill for me to just swallow, and I'm more than a little disappointed ebay lets them have that kind of unfair power. Scum-bag buyers can rip off good honest sellers all they want apparently.
This is the first time it has happened to me and I already don't really want to sell here anymore just knowing ebay lets that kind of thing happen with zero repercussion to the buyer.

That said, I totally get what both you and ersatz_sobriquet are saying. Obviously our best and only choice is to kiss the bum of bad people and do whatever they say at whatever expense to ourselves if we want to keep selling here, but that is complete garbage.

[equid0x]

That really depends on what you sell. There are some categories where people will make up literally anything to get you to refund their money. 

[beardedbovine]

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@unicron9tj wrote:

when I got it back, as expected, there was nothing at all on the package or the dress. It was in perfect condition just as I sent it. 

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At least you have that going for you and you can re-sell the dress... some buyers will intentionally damage the product to go along with their made up not as described claims.

BBL if you haven't already.

[preclovisman]

Ebay has been going into the toilet for a very long time. We've been selling and buying since 1998 on a hobby scale. Back in the early days it was great, very little issues with ebay. Now they absolutely don't support sellers, they cater to buyers in the extreme. I "sold" a rare NASA flight helmet for $1,100 and the buyer refused to pay or to answer my messages. I filed a complaint with ebay . . . they said just relist it and would not do a thing to the deadbeat. When I tried to give the clown negative feedback, there was no option for that!!! Period. And I was WARNED not to leave a negative message on his positive or neutral feedback or I would be penalized??? Well, that did it for me. There were other selling problems caused by ebay with their new age, feel good, EMPATHY FOR CRIMINALS, liberal agenda. Luckily I had the 2nd bidders email address from a few other transactions and offered it to them privately at their bid and they jumped on it. Ebay lost a very large commission and my loyalty was gone forever.

[gracieallen01]

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@corvettestainless wrote:

You obviously do not sell here and/or do not understand customer service. 

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I think it is more a matter of understanding big business, all too well.

The big venues want buyers - the people and their money.  One isn't going to teach people morals, when it comes to what a person wants or doesn't want, or when they are only talking to a computer screen that is run by a bunch of 'bots and AI.  And, especially when those 'bots and AI are programmed for the same type of people that want more money from people.

Fezziwig is gone - the vested interest is now in charge.  Christmas is over - the people on the 'street' are at the helm, and they want that free lunch.

[lindyslucky]

Totally agree.

We are here to make money.

We also believe that all should be respected and treated fairly.

We had a successful retail store, open for decades, since before we were born.

Our policy was no returns.

This was well known & respected. If a customer insisted on a return, and made an issue of it, we called the police. They would then explain that our policy was well stated, if there was an issue, they could take us to court (no one ever did). If they continued to insist, they dealt with the police. 

Our policies pretty much took care of problem buyers.

Of course we did return, at our discretion.

But there's a big difference in returns at a big box store, it feels like it's "nobody's" money. The money doesn't belong to the individual employee giving the return. The employee certainly views a return differently. 

For a small individual seller, it's definitely just your money. It's personal. And hurtful. It can mean the difference in how warm one is going to be, or what one has to eat.

Ebay has cultivated the concept that people are buying from eBay. (Wasn't always so, but..) We the true sellers are to be faceless, nameless. 

Personally I believe this is a mistake, that our individuality should be promoted(bad word these days!) 

And I believe sellers should be able to set their own terms of sale, run their own "store" or "business". The marketplace and feedback would quickly take care of a bad business. That was how things were first intended at eBay. 

I do understand, however that this is eBay's site, 

Working under the eBay umbrella costs.

Sadly, Integrity, and decency seem to be way down the list for many buyers and sellers here. 

Wondering what the long term effect will be. 

[corvettestainless]

Apologizing is just a 'de-escalation' tool. The customer comes in a huff, and you simply apologize 'I'm sorry you are not happy'. I have not admitted anything and the customer is now usually ready to conversate from there. 

It is disingenuous, and is a social tool taught by $20,000 'customer service' companies that visit all the 'big boy' stores across the nation. It makes me much smarter than them as I just controlled their emotions, like a hypnotist. Works every time. 

Bottom line, especially with internet sales,  customer get's their money back upon return. Move on and count the overall profits from all the (92+% national avg) successful sales. 

[lindyslucky]

Amazing!!

Just a fun note here, no disagreement!

In my first restaurant jobs, I was told to Never!! Ask or imply happiness. No one is ever totally happy & opening that door unleashes monsters.

Rather, (if no complaint) "are you enjoying your dinner"or "wow, that desert is delicious"

(I have noticed restaurants not asking about "happiness" lately, not rocking the boat.) 

"Im sorry"works, if no specifics are given.

Better straight out, "what can we do to make this right?" 

Puts  it back in customer's corner, one finds out what the issue is & what they are truly after. If it appears there are no specifics , then there is a real problem. 

Reading this makes me miss the sales floor and the face to face interaction with all.

[lindyslucky]

BTW, this is just asking, but if sales on eBay resulted in 8% returns, would eBay allow a seller here to continue?

And how many small sellers could stay in business?

[corvettestainless]

Better yet; you want to give a 'statement' or an 'open ended question'. In the case of a Restaurant Server, it's "Looks like you really enjoyed your XX" (noticing an empty plate). Happiness- "I'm so glad you chose our restaurant, hope to see you return soon!

In other circumstances, you don't ask 'so, you don't like it, huh?'- you ask them "can you tell me what the issue is?".  Open ended, makes them talk, as they do, they calm down. 

Bottom line, people buy things to use/keep, and not to return. So, work with them when possible. 

[corvettestainless]

Admittedly, I had to google it, and got numbers from 4% national average to 8%. I used the 8% for sake of commentary. When I was at Big Box Office Supplies, Home Improvement and Electronics- all were in the 2-3% range, with 90% going back on the floor for resale. 

I don't know what they are here, but obviously certain categories are more than others. I think for high return items, ie. clothing, electrical and automotive repair items, 'free returns' are a must. Then, it doesn't matter what your % is- there will not be many 'not as described'. Regular 'returns' are not calculated against you. 

[equid0x]

I'm there with you. I've made multiple calls over multiple months now and eBay still has not closed my account. I also cannot do it automatically through the site with the new link they posted. When I do, it tells me to call customer service. 

I've made over 20 purchases online since I left eBay and none of them were done here. 

[equid0x]

I was taught never to open the door. I would apologize to the customer if a bad situation arises and do my best to rectify it, but I never let the customer decide on their own what they want (because some people will come up with some crazy caca). I would give them a few options and let them choose how they want to handle it. 

This way, they have the satisfaction of making the decision about how to move forward while the company still has control of how the issue will get rectified.