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Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

trinton@ebay .. do you have any word on when and if ebay plans to correct this??

@Anonymous 

 

I'm reposting this , because It is a major problem and I think more sellers will see it here.!  Has anyone talked to customer service lately about this? has there been any hint that they realize it's screwed up??please post if you have been assessed the additional 4% final value fees recently?.. 

 

 

the new service metrics system is majorly flawed.  the system penalizes sellers even when the situation is clear that the seller had no way to do anything differently.. sellers have complied with everything ebay has instructed us to do(with the promise of never being penalized, if we handled the returns) and now we are being penalized.

 

The penalty for going above the return threshold is a 4% additional final value fee (around a 40% fee increase in many categories). Therefore, allowing accidentally inaccurate or even intentionally false reasons for return by buyers looking to recoup a few shipping dollars to count against the service metric could be quite costly to sellers who provide a top rated experience.

 

Example 1: A buyer recently opened a return for a pair of eyeglasses frames, as “item doesn’t work/defective”. In her return notes, she stated that the “Frames were darling, but were too small to fit my prescription.” The return was automatically accepted and the buyer received a full refund, even though the original shipping technically should not be refunded.

 

Example 2: A buyer opened a return for a high end business suit, as “Wrong Item Sent”. In the return notes, the buyer stated “You sent 58 not a 54, please refund my money and shipping”. The listing photo and descriptions clearly showed that the suit was size 58. The return was automatically accepted and the buyer will receive a full refund once the item arrives, even though the original shipping technically should not be refunded.

 

In both instances eBay anchor support was contacted to inquire about the affect of the questionable returns on the new service metric. In both cases the customer service representatives informed me that while they agreed that the returns were both opened incorrectly and should have been ‘buyer remorse' returns, the incorrect defect on the service metrics could not be reversed.

 

If this is allowed to continue, it is quite possible that these false returns could cause a significant increase in final value fees for sellers who provide a top rated experience, and by no fault of the seller. It would be grossly unethical for eBay to make a profit off honest sellers due to buyer dishonesty, negligence or ignorance.

 

It is quite obvious that a defect appeal system needs to work hand in hand with the new service metrics system, in order to assure that quality sellers are not needlessly penalized.

 

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw


@lasantino wrote:

trinton@ebay .. do you have any word on when and if ebay plans to correct this??

@Anonymous 

 

I'm reposting this , because It is a major problem and I think more sellers will see it here.!  Has anyone talked to customer service lately about this? has there been any hint that they realize it's screwed up??please post if you have been assessed the additional 4% final value fees recently?.. 

 

 

the new service metrics system is majorly flawed.  the system penalizes sellers even when the situation is clear that the seller had no way to do anything differently.

 


eBay staff has told us that the service metric has built into the formula for events that are out of sellers control.  This seems fair enough to me because no specific sellers has an advantage in this area.

 

Good Luck Selling!

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw


@threshold.sales.group wrote:

IIRC, just reporting the buyers individual SNAD claim will not have any effect or relief. The buyer must be deemed "abusive", which will require a track record of who knows how many reports? So yes, reporting by sellers is important to establish history,  but as I understand the "new" program they still are not going to be judging single cases of abuse.   If it tips the abuser over the supposed scale yes, but as far as the current,single transaction for any seller goes, there remains no genuine protection from fraud or abuse at all.  


Thank you.  Yes you are correct but yes I did state that in my posting as well.  I worded it differently, but it was still there.  With the exception of your opinion that Ebay will only react if the buyer has a history of abusive actions against sellers.  That is not my take on the policy.

 

Keep in mind that it doesn't necessarily take a "history" of abusive actions by a buyer to deem their actions on a single transaction with you as abusive.  

 

Now a buyer with multiple infractions of abusive run the risk of further or more serious sanctions by Ebay.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member  •  Buyer/Seller since 1999
Message 17 of 43
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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw


@goodluckselling wrote:


eBay staff has told us that the service metric has built into the formula for events that are out of sellers control.  This seems fair enough to me because no specific sellers has an advantage in this area.

 

Good Luck Selling!


If eBay staff told us that then it must be true!  

(sarcasm smiley)

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

Depending on the category it's flawed in what it thinks to be the average return rate.

Take "cellphones and accessories" for example with apparently a 0.79% average return rate right now.

Guess whats within cellphones and accessories? "cellphone parts" so if you sell repair parts which are commonly returned for obvious reasons you are compared to other sellers selling phone cases and charging cords. FLAWED to put it mildly.

I'm at about 1.5% and that's all phone repair parts. They consider you high rate at 1% which is a joke selling repair parts.

 

Maybe eBay should make it easier for buyers to message the seller rather than taking them right to a return like it does now.

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

I'm currently suffering from this as well, especially in auto parts where I get more returns than the average seller on here. 

 

In response to this I have jacked my prices up 25% and where ebay used to be my primary focus I have begun focusing on other methods of sales such as opening a dealership, etc. etc. 

 

Sales are steady but no way near what they used to be.

 

This is the first time in 2+ years that my store has fallen below 6,000 items but my motivation to list is dwindling day by day.

 

This policy is such a short sighted solution to show growth which I believe will come back to haunt them. A year ago I didn't even care for locals now I love em. 😉

 

Improvise and adapt is all I can say.

 

Good luck.

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

I feel sorry for you in auto parts. I can only imagine the amount of ignorant returns in that category. 

Let me guess how they sound "does not match description" buyer note "sorry bought wrong part but i want you to pay return shipping"

 

Wish you good luck selling wherever that may be. 

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw


@ibuyyoulongtime wrote:

I feel sorry for you in auto parts. I can only imagine the amount of ignorant returns in that category. 

Let me guess how they sound "does not match description" buyer note "sorry bought wrong part but i want you to pay return shipping"

 

Wish you good luck selling wherever that may be. 


The same stuff happens in consumer electronics as well. They pull the switcheroo, break it and send it back, can't figure out how it works and return it, buy the wrong item and return it, etc. Of course, all of these seem to be SNAD "item not working" despite the fact that 99% of these items get retested good and resold to other buyers without a peep. 

 

In the past week, I've had one buyer who bypassed the purchase limit, bought 2 of the same item and now claims they both don't work. (ALL my items get tested before listing) Another buyer purchased a tablet, stuck their broken one in the box, and sent it back. I know this happened because I track the SNs and also the SN of the tablet does not match the box. 

 

 

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

you have had to raise prices 25%..

 

ebay often offers buyers looking for items a value option... 

however,, when ebay demands that sellers offer the same kind of return options and service of the big retailers, it's a lose lose proposition.. sellers can't offer lower prices if we have to build in the cost of accepting bogus returns etc.

 

 

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

Thank you for feeling sorry. It is a fact. We did not accept returns for many of our ABS Pumps, ECU; and other used automotive items. Our metrics went to Very High due to the fact the Sellers were claiming "Not Working or Defective" to get away with Murder and return a good item. 

 

We have complaint many times to eBay and our parts are from Run & Drive Vehicles and are tested before removal. All the Returns that we have had Buyers claiming "Not Working or Defective" have been relisted immediately after we receive them back and obviously after we have lost shipping both ways and a case has been opened by the Buyer.

 

Some of the Relisted item have been sold again and the New Buyers have left positive feedback and no complaints. The Fact that we relist an item, must send eBay a clear message that we are a very honest seller. Today we took the time to find on eBay some of the items that were returned by Buyers claiming "Not Working or Defective", writing down the Item Number that it had when it was returned and then the Item number of when it was relisted and sold. We placed a call and CS had it clearly in front of their eyes. 

 

Now we accept returns on 90% of our items following eBay's suggestions for months. Guess what, now the returns are for "I don't need Item anymore", "I ordered the wrong item", "Item does not fit", etc. We take the time to put the OEM or Part number in our listings four(4) times : In the heading, in the description, in the Manufactures Number Field and we take a picture of the item showing the OEM number. How can you get it wrong?

 

The only "Advantage" now is that it does not affect our Service Metric and we don't have to pay for the return shipping, but really??? we lose the shipping to send the item to the Buyer, time and the returns are crazy.

 

Most of the returns are from Buyers that create the account specifically to by our item.

 

Not fair for a Seller with 100% Feedback and Top Seller Ratings. Since October of 2018 we have lost $3,000 of or revenues due to the Sellers Metrics 4%. I hope soon this takes a big turn and this abuse stops. 

 

Thanks

G&F Autos

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw


@gfautos wrote:

Thank you for feeling sorry. It is a fact. We did not accept returns for many of our ABS Pumps, ECU; and other used automotive items. Our metrics went to Very High due to the fact the Sellers were claiming "Not Working or Defective" to get away with Murder and return a good item. 

 

We have complaint many times to eBay and our parts are from Run & Drive Vehicles and are tested before removal. All the Returns that we have had Buyers claiming "Not Working or Defective" have been relisted immediately after we receive them back and obviously after we have lost shipping both ways and a case has been opened by the Buyer.

 

Some of the Relisted item have been sold again and the New Buyers have left positive feedback and no complaints. The Fact that we relist an item, must send eBay a clear message that we are a very honest seller. Today we took the time to find on eBay some of the items that were returned by Buyers claiming "Not Working or Defective", writing down the Item Number that it had when it was returned and then the Item number of when it was relisted and sold. We placed a call and CS had it clearly in front of their eyes. 

 

Now we accept returns on 90% of our items following eBay's suggestions for months. Guess what, now the returns are for "I don't need Item anymore", "I ordered the wrong item", "Item does not fit", etc. We take the time to put the OEM or Part number in our listings four(4) times : In the heading, in the description, in the Manufactures Number Field and we take a picture of the item showing the OEM number. How can you get it wrong?

 

The only "Advantage" now is that it does not affect our Service Metric and we don't have to pay for the return shipping, but really??? we lose the shipping to send the item to the Buyer, time and the returns are crazy.

 

Most of the returns are from Buyers that create the account specifically to by our item.

 

Not fair for a Seller with 100% Feedback and Top Seller Ratings. Since October of 2018 we have lost $3,000 of or revenues due to the Sellers Metrics 4%. I hope soon this takes a big turn and this abuse stops. 

 

Thanks

G&F Autos


Unfortunately, it DID take "a big turn" with the Spring Update- eBay increased the rate to 5%. Seems this should tell you all you need to know about this program.

 

Sorry.

 

FWIW,  industry standard  everywhere, worldwide, is no refunds on the electrical and safety items you mentioned in the retail auto parts industry. This often has to do with safety laws, not personal choice. Not only is eBay forcing a (not very) stealth fee increase down your throat, they're interfering with mandated business models and forcing you to open yourself up to outright loss, lawsuit, or both.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".
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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

I finally got my returns to average and now it’s back up to high because of fraudulent returns! 1 item is being returned because “buyer sent me wrong item” but in his response he ordered wrong item! 2 defective but in his response “I needed other side!” (Item was interchangeable fit left and right), 3 item damaged (package damaged from shipping) and the best one yet got a return and the item wasn’t even mine and it was in pieces! I had to pay higher fees for 4 months! If I get any more returns it’s going back up again! This policy needs to be fixed!!! It’s killing me. 

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

This program is a racket and there should be some outside oversight into this or class action lawsuit filed. We literally have had a auto repair facility buy an electronic tool with no returns from us to use on a customer vehicle to repair their vehicle for profit, then had them open a item defective return, send back a brick in the box, filed a police report, ebay appeal in our favor and paid us insurance money and then STILL COUNTED THIS AGAINST OUR SERVICE METRICS. If this isn't flawed and unlawful, I don't know what is.

Message 27 of 43
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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

i was hit by simmilar issue. paid more than $600 in extra fees and now stopped selling on ebay till that metrics is out (waited 3 months now) still no selling here..
Message 28 of 43
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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

Agreed. This is a big issue. I’m penalized for sellers mistakes. Ebay just doing this to get money for us the sellers.

This is just inacceptable.

john.

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Re: Service Metrics system clearly needs review to fix a major flaw

I had one, the guy buys a coach belt and opens a case. "It should say coach on the belt to be authentic" I said "turn the belt over" and he closed the case, never heard from him again.  Here it is A YEAR LATER. 4% fees on EVERYTHING  in that category.  A total of 865 sales and 25 cases opened over the course of 12 full months. I just HAPPENED  to miss the 400 item cut off every 3rd month. And they all seem to be unusually slow around the time the benchmark period ends. 

 

If I'm getting a good deal, I'm coming back as a buyer. Even if I'm robbed at gun point in the parking lot once a month. Ebays price is worth it as a buyer.  Once you lose a seller, hes taking as many with him as possible and NEVER coming back.  All these other sites popping up are ebays disgruntled sellers. Some billion dollar companies,  that's all ebays lost revenues from getting it wrong.  We get it, if the buyer doesn't want the item, its coming back.  We don't need lashes on top of the lost revenues. They got this all wrong and the other sites are coming full force, gaining mass 4% at a time. 

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