Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

[rockbottomauto]

We are one of the larger sellers of OEM auto parts on eBay, and have been for many years.

We offer completely free returns, even for buyers that simply "change their minds", but of course every month we enter the "very high items not as described" threshold.

Every single case that has been opened against us for "items not as described" has been completely proven that the buyer simply ordered the wrong part for their application. The words "items not as described" should equate that we sent the customer the wrong part, or a part that was not in brand new condition etc. Buyers know in all facets of online shopping they just need to lie a little to get what they want.

Furthermore, if we are offering "free returns", why should we be penalized with an extra 5% of fees anyway? It's not like the good folks at eBay are footing the bill for us, we are still out the shipping costs both ways. 

We sell exactly the same amount of parts on Amazon every single month, and guess what? We get about 80% less in returns from the parts sold on Amazon. Why is that you ask? eBay encourages scam behavior.

I know you guys are losing market share and there probably won't be an eBay in 10 years, but you really should strongly consider erasing this policy and I mean quickly. We started last year making plans to leave eBay, and are going to do so sooner rather than later.

Shameless cash grabs are a sign of desperation, and a message to the community that you are scared to death of going under.

[flyingmvp]

We all have some kind of idea what is the ratio between sellers who ship bad merch to buyers who want to SNAD their way for a free paid shipping return,

even in cases when the sellers are offering free returns.

Sellers such as the OP and many more did not become so successful on this platform by selling and shipping the wrong merch to buyers, it is quite the opposite.

The current method of punishing sellers by leaving them vulnerable to inad/snad returns through MBG is an invitation to damage and hurt the sellers metrics which benefits Ebay financially, it is working great for Ebay's bottom line, buyers couldn't care less about the ebay seller metrics abuse, they just want to return the item.

It is between Ebay and the sellers and Ebay needs to make it right.

[rockbottomauto]

Only an eBay employee would write something this silly. Answer me this, if a seller is offering free returns, why would eBay ever need to charge a fee for Items Not As Described cases? eBay instituted this as a new revenue stream, nothing more.

[rockbottomauto]

We have been selling on Amazon for 7 years, and on eBay for over 10. What I stated was, we are moving more and more of our inventory to Amazon.

Early on, it was advantageous for us to keep more of our inventory on eBay due to the fee structure being more relaxed on eBay, and more of our consumers using the platform. It has completely switched in the past year and this new fee structure is a big part of that.

[rockbottomauto]

eBay employees are out in force today I see, and with your big 0 feedback, I can see why you would stay away from us. (we would not sell to you anyway)

What would be ideal is if eBay would block all the little scammers like yourself. 

[rockbottomauto]

Very well thought out and that was our point from the very beginning of this whole ordeal. It is business ethics 101, and eBay is playing the role of corporate swindler. 

[donsdetour]

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@rockbottomauto wrote:

Only an eBay employee would write something this silly. Answer me this, if a seller is offering free returns, why would eBay ever need to charge a fee for Items Not As Described cases? eBay instituted this as a new revenue stream, nothing more.

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ROTFLOL please tell us users who disagree with you how to get paid by eBay please....

Granted this has become a problem of buyer return abuse, and ends up costing seller more to sell here:

Of course sellers are not reporting the buyer return abuse: which all should do if such is done.

Granted some way  need to be done to protect sellers from this: but so far no realistic way has been found....

[downunder-61]

Perhaps OP's metrics problem has more to do with failure to address returns etc  if response to buyers comments is anything to go by.

[flyingmvp]

Hi donsdetour , there are so many posts related to the "seller metrics" money grab machine, all mostly identical.

The issue is NOT with the buyers who want to return the item, let them return for a refund, that's fine.

so many sellers here are offering free returns no questions asked, and still getting milked with the 5% "Seller Metrics" snad tool.

the Issue is with ebay who is using this unfair and unethical tool as an excuse to pickpocket more money from the sellers, Ebay VS sellers.  

[glasser]

@rockbottomauto  

"Furthermore, if we are offering "free returns", why should we be penalized with an extra 5% of fees anyway?"

This is the operative statement. If you offer free returns for any reason then eBay shouldn't even be tracking this metric on you. The whole point of INAD is to protect buyers against seller fraud and to encourage a trusted marketplace.  Nothing does that better the free returns.  eBay will never have to intervene or enforce a MBG. What else could they ask of you as a seller.

Any seller that offers free returns and pays shipping should automatically be exempt from INAD claims. You have 100% met your CS obligations /full stop

Add to that that INAD is not something that can be 100% defined. An Amazon shipment came to me with a size I didn't offer. INAD or just a mistake in the warehouse?

[rockbottomauto]

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@glasser wrote:

@rockbottomauto  

Add to that that INAD is not something that can be 100% defined. An Amazon shipment came to me with a size I didn't offer. INAD or just a mistake in the warehouse?

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Some excellent points in your post but this one is the most glaring. Furthermore with car parts, 90% of the time buyers do not verify fitment so what they claim is "item not as described" is really them being too uneducated to order the proper part for their vehicle. How is that our fault?

[rockbottomauto]

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@donsdetour wrote:

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@rockbottomauto wrote:

Only an eBay employee would write something this silly. Answer me this, if a seller is offering free returns, why would eBay ever need to charge a fee for Items Not As Described cases? eBay instituted this as a new revenue stream, nothing more.

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Of course sellers are not reporting the buyer return abuse: which all should do if such is done.

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Of course we are reporting it, but it is falling on deaf ears. See @flyingmvp 's post, I have repeated myself enough as it is.

[katzrul15]

@rockbottomauto 

Yes- here since '04/Amazon '06.  This is a posting ID.

In 2021, we have moved over 30% of our product additionally to FBA that was on here.  Felt as though it was only option left.

Anticipate we will move more by 9/1 to ready for the Holidays. 

[albany_sellers]

I don't think it's so much that they condone it, though the statement could be made that through their inaction they condone it. I think that they are just so scared of saying no to a buyer because there is a chance that buyer will run with the narrative that they got "scammed" on eBay, and eBay is terrified that others will hear about it.

In the end it becomes one of those "Let's throw the seller under the bus so that public opinion stays on our side, for now anyways" deals. 

On the other topic, Amazon is no better, and in fact they are worse about that sort of thing. There is no trials, no appeals, no investigation of the facts, just summary executions of their sellers without evidence. As bad as it might seem on eBay, Amazon has the patent on screwing sellers over.

[gjs_16]

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@rockbottomauto wrote:

eBay employees are out in force today I see, and with your big 0 feedback, I can see why you would stay away from us. (we would not sell to you anyway)

What would be ideal is if eBay would block all the little scammers like yourself. 

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I am not sure how else to explain that your brick and mortar store policies can only work in either your store or on your own web site, they don't work on eaby and the fact you fight eaby when "your" policies conflict with eaby's is why your metrics are suffering and why you're paying more and more.

However, none of us thus far can seem to get you to understand that...

Because of that eaby wants sellers like you gone because the way you fight with us and our buyers hurts us all.  You can not sell here according to how you think things should go.  When you joined eaby as a seller you agreed to abide by eaby's Policies in their User Agreement, you agreed to follow all policies as outlined by eaby and not the other way around, eaby never once agreed to do things your way.

Remember that, the user agreement you agreed to abide by?

Maybe go read it, from beginning to end.

Make sure to take special note when your policies do not align with eaby's.

When that happens, should you fail to take those into account it will be you who suffers.

[rockbottomauto]

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@albany_sellers wrote:

I don't think it's so much that they condone it, though the statement could be made that through their inaction they condone it. I think that they are just so scared of saying no to a buyer because there is a chance that buyer will run with the narrative that they got "scammed" on eBay, and eBay is terrified that others will hear about it.

In the end it becomes one of those "Let's throw the seller under the bus so that public opinion stays on our side, for now anyways" deals. 

On the other topic, Amazon is no better, and in fact they are worse about that sort of thing. There is no trials, no appeals, no investigation of the facts, just summary executions of their sellers without evidence. As bad as it might seem on eBay, Amazon has the patent on screwing sellers over.

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It is pretty clear that you do not understand the issue, and in this regard, yes Amazon is managing the seller relationship in a way that is not unethical. 

Charging sellers an extra fee for buyer incompetence is wrong, no matter how you slice it.