Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

[rockbottomauto]

We are one of the larger sellers of OEM auto parts on eBay, and have been for many years.

We offer completely free returns, even for buyers that simply "change their minds", but of course every month we enter the "very high items not as described" threshold.

Every single case that has been opened against us for "items not as described" has been completely proven that the buyer simply ordered the wrong part for their application. The words "items not as described" should equate that we sent the customer the wrong part, or a part that was not in brand new condition etc. Buyers know in all facets of online shopping they just need to lie a little to get what they want.

Furthermore, if we are offering "free returns", why should we be penalized with an extra 5% of fees anyway? It's not like the good folks at eBay are footing the bill for us, we are still out the shipping costs both ways. 

We sell exactly the same amount of parts on Amazon every single month, and guess what? We get about 80% less in returns from the parts sold on Amazon. Why is that you ask? eBay encourages scam behavior.

I know you guys are losing market share and there probably won't be an eBay in 10 years, but you really should strongly consider erasing this policy and I mean quickly. We started last year making plans to leave eBay, and are going to do so sooner rather than later.

Shameless cash grabs are a sign of desperation, and a message to the community that you are scared to death of going under.

[woodbird]

Has anyone talked about a class action lawsuit against ebay?  I am being charged the additional fee and have disuputed multiple returns and still am being charged the fee.  This accounted to $600 extra last month alone.  

[rockbottomauto]

Imagine how you would feel if you were charged over $3000 extra each month, and then come to find out you weren't even in the "very high" metrics and kept being charged anyway with no refund.

I sincerely doubt a class action lawsuit is going to happen, eBay will just slowly put themselves out of business and we will all just move completely to Amazon. Great business strategy.

[rockbottomauto]

For those wondering, this unjust tax is still going on, we are just paying less because we are moving more and more of our inventory to Amazon. Want to know the funny thing? Our returns are cut by 1/3 in Amazon vs. eBay. Want to know why? eBay encourages deceitful behavior from buyers.

[rockbottomauto]

I keep on sending the facts of people scamming the system, and we keep on hearing nothing but crickets from the team at eBay. This is flat out wrong, scam behavior on your part eBay!

[gjs_16]

---

@corvettestainless wrote:

I think the number has 'falsley moved 'down' for the category of 'motors- parts/accessories'. Auto parts have a much greater than 1.08% returns; many times people are 'guessing' what the problem is, other times they have no business lifting the hood much less trying to install. In the old days, 'Electronic' components sold at auto parts stores were NOT returnable. 

---

Oh I agree...

It's bad in other sections too, people ordering without even looking up actual part numbers, then returning ours because it "Doesn't fit."  

However metrics aren't what you think as far as theft, even thou they may appear that way.

Metrics are an ineffective attempt at curbing abusive seller (and to some degree CS and buyer) behavior.  That is why they were even created in the first place. Metrics are incredibly silly because if a seller wants to be abusive it's quite simple to work around these metrics, also it tends to punish sellers for all the wrong reasons, however that is why they exist.  Metrics are an ineffective attempt at curbing abusive behaviors.

Every major corporation has them in some way, form, shape or manner.

All of them do, from AMZN to Walmart and past and beyond.

Employees and managers and even customers alike, everyone has to jump through these hoops, all because SOMEONE (or some people, groups or individuals) have in the past abused a certain system and thus metrics were created in order to curb that behavior.

[gotta-have-it-collectables]

💯

[gjs_16]

---

@rockbottomauto wrote:

---

@corvettestainless wrote:

I think the number has 'falsley moved 'down' for the category of 'motors- parts/accessories'. Auto parts have a much greater than 1.08% returns; many times people are 'guessing' what the problem is, other times they have no business lifting the hood much less trying to install. In the old days, 'Electronic' components sold at auto parts stores were NOT returnable. 

---

This exactly. Misdiagnosis, then they return the part while claiming it was "not as described" to avoid responsibility.

It's truly pathetic on eBay's part to condone this type of behavior. 

---

It's also unethical as a mechanic, to uninstall a working part...

Yes, a true blue mechanic will LEAVE a new part installed even if it didn't fix the problem.
Because mechanically speaking it's not just ethical but it also makes the most sense.
But you can't explain that to these shade tree folks who see nothing wrong with the behavior since sellers are all greedy thieves who deserve whatever comes their way.  And eaby doesn't care.

[rockbottomauto]

---

@gjs_16 wrote:

---

@corvettestainless wrote:

I think the number has 'falsley moved 'down' for the category of 'motors- parts/accessories'. Auto parts have a much greater than 1.08% returns; many times people are 'guessing' what the problem is, other times they have no business lifting the hood much less trying to install. In the old days, 'Electronic' components sold at auto parts stores were NOT returnable. 

---

However metrics aren't what you think as far as theft, even thou they may appear that way.

---

Actually, what they are in this case is a new revenue stream for a company desperate to look good to share holders that has been losing market share over the past decade.

This is a cash grab to try and look profitable, nothing more.

[fsquaredperformance]

EXACTLY right. eBay losing market share, finding more and more ways to stab sellers in the back to pad their earnings. If this was truly about improving buyer's experiences on the platform, and not a blatant cash grab, eBay would be willing to remove strikes against our service metrics for which we have PROOF in eBay messages that the buyers opened making false claims. Of course they won't, because there is a massive conflict of interest.

eBay collected $2k in penalties from us last November as a result of this scam. Wish we could take these crooks to court. 

[vintagecraze50]

The consumers who make fraudulent claims and the seller who would send bad merch are the cause of this problem, NOT EBAY. Ebay responds but instating rules that will somehow mitigate this problem on both ends. It is not the perfect solution but something that must be implemented.

[katzrul15]

@rockbottomauto 

So you have been trying to get e-Bay's attention for almost a year?  And you're just now migrating to Amazon?

We sell on both sites and have for a long time.  Where you are migrating to is not Utopia.  There are a whole different set of issues for Sellers.  Have to admit, our fraud there is non-existent.

If a year later your ordering process is still resulting in a really high return ratio on e-Bay, what makes you think that will be much different on another site?  Perhaps finding a way to tweak what you're doing here would work better?  11 months is a long time for crickets when money is at stake.

[gjs_16]

---

@rockbottomauto wrote:

---

@ittybitnot wrote:

We do not cancel the sale, so as long as they do not open a case it does not count against us.

I should have elaborated, yes that is correct we handle it is a "return" without a case, once that is complete on our end the FVF's are refunded. It is really the only way to avoid the metrics 100% and ensure we are not cheated.

---

Maybe, but it's also a way to ensure the buyer gets NO refund at all and there's one more problem... I rarely contact the seller first, it's not you... It's every seller before you who has been uncooperative, at times belligerent, some are misleading, let me tell you again if a seller were to even suggest I return the item outside of opening a case?

Yeah you can forget that, once the item is gone from my house I would have no resource?

Actually I do, I can still open a case and send back an empty box.

But why open myself to such struggle?
Today I always open a case first.

It's just not worth the hassle of dealing with uncooperative sellers.

On that note I am pretty sure you're one of the sellers I will not buy from.

It's not just your return issues, the fact is you think eaby can be operated according to YOUR policy.

Between you and I, that would be bad news.  Your policy doesn't work in my favor the way eaby's does.

Here's the thing:  I want to return the item.

No, I don't care, I just want to return it, yes you get to pay the shipping and I want my money back.
Thank you.

That is all that's going through a buyer's mind, they really don't give a rat about metrics and crappidge and fartulations and what goes on in the seller's store.  They want their money back, yes it's terrible, in many cases it's buyer laziness but don't forget corporate greed may have stuck a slick little "sponsored" listing in the search results and the buyer bought it not realizing... 
Now they want their money back, doesn't matter the reason.

You may wish to consider raising your prices to compensate.

[printpeople]

“eBay enables bad behavior, then charges the seller for it. “

So true!

[numisnorway]

---

@rockmafia5 wrote:

The BBB is a joke.  It is well known that a business with a less than stellar reputation can buy a AAA rating with them regardless of the number of complaints.  Many shady businesses are quick to tout their great "rating".  The BBB also has no power to do anything to ebay.

---

It is just another tentacle of the same oppressive system.. being allowed to "complain" within the framework of said system. It is just to give the illusion that there is justice.

[numisnorway]

---

I wonder if ebay will apply the same logic for refusing us to leave negative feedback for sca.. eh buyers.

"Buyers who get negative feedback are less likely to continue buying on ebay"

Should equate to:

"Sellers who gets unjustly punished are less likely to sell on ebay"

Of course they won't and of course they wont back down from this idiotic, greedy and parasitic decision because the buyer and ebay are never wrong and they never reverse any of their stupidity or learn from it and the only thing that will happen when sellers migrate to other platforms is that they will increase the fees for the remainder and probably find new "creative" ways to squeeze them dry while the phony cheerleaders will chant the mantra "more sales for me".