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Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

We are one of the larger sellers of OEM auto parts on eBay, and have been for many years.

 

We offer completely free returns, even for buyers that simply "change their minds", but of course every month we enter the "very high items not as described" threshold.

 

Every single case that has been opened against us for "items not as described" has been completely proven that the buyer simply ordered the wrong part for their application. The words "items not as described" should equate that we sent the customer the wrong part, or a part that was not in brand new condition etc. Buyers know in all facets of online shopping they just need to lie a little to get what they want.

 

Furthermore, if we are offering "free returns", why should we be penalized with an extra 5% of fees anyway? It's not like the good folks at eBay are footing the bill for us, we are still out the shipping costs both ways. 

 

We sell exactly the same amount of parts on Amazon every single month, and guess what? We get about 80% less in returns from the parts sold on Amazon. Why is that you ask? eBay encourages scam behavior.

 

I know you guys are losing market share and there probably won't be an eBay in 10 years, but you really should strongly consider erasing this policy and I mean quickly. We started last year making plans to leave eBay, and are going to do so sooner rather than later.

 

Shameless cash grabs are a sign of desperation, and a message to the community that you are scared to death of going under.

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly


@furrakooki_0 wrote:

Why do you think their prices are where they are?


Because demand is up due to the pandemic.

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Message 46 of 134
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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly


@ittybitnot wrote:

Facts matter, if people lie and it is proven, they should be held accountable. 

 

eBay is not big on "buyer" accountability.   Filing a phony SNAD to get free return shipping is acceptable buyer behavior.  It is so common that even if you offer "free returns" a buyer will likely not even notice. 

I've long suspected that to be the case.

I know buyers don't really care, but they should...

Why, because either way we pay the shipping however if they would at least be honest it might help keep the cost down... Lying to a business is so common that we can't take a buyer's word for anything and when I have to make sure everything is tested, that costs money and you can believe we pass that cost on to consumers because if we don't then we don't get to stay in business.

So trite as it might sound but honesty does pay.

 


@ittybitnot wrote:

You can, after you give the refund, "report the buyer" for phony SNADs. 


Don't get me wrong but I think reporting the buyer is about as useful as installing a screen door on a submarine.

 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly


@aldente28 wrote:

@furrakooki_0 wrote:

Why do you think their prices are where they are?


Because demand is up due to the pandemic.


This, as always when the economy suffers, people stay in their current car longer and fix it as opposed to purchasing new.

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

Even more pathetic now, when we charge restocking fees for buyers that install an item and send it back in used condition, those instances are now being counted against us in Service Metrics as well.

 

That is about as unethical as it gets eBay. 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

This is still going on, we are still being charged unjustly. Just moved 20% more of our inventory over to Amazon where they hold people accountable. It won't be long eBay, you are about to learn a valuable lesson.

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

It is very sad and unfortunate to see what you have been going through,

Ebay  is being quite short sighted with charging and punishing sellers with the "Seller Metrics Money Grab"  it's quick easy money grab and it costs ebay nothing to charge and collect, the SNAD magic word is rigged against the sellers.

it's very sad that a seller at your level is migrating away his listings,

Another big seller just published a link to getting started selling on a different venue.

I was sure ebay was trying to push away the smaller sellers with the GTC, Promoted Listings and Managed Payments schemes,

 

seeing someone at your level migrating his listing elsewhere is not a good sign.

 

 

 

 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

I'm dealing with this right now. Normally on a bad week I get one return. This week I am up to 6. 2 were from cases those people lost on ebay and went to paypal and lied (both bought wrong part). Unfortunately ebay took their time getting my account over to managed payments so they double dipped in the disputes. 

 

I have four cases currently on ebay. Two of which the people flat out admit in messaging the items work. Yet I have to take both returns and pay return shipping both ways. One just filed minutes ago, ebay automatically accepted the return because I opened the app on my phone and when I clicked the screen to scroll down to respond it automatically accepted it, called ebay almost immediately, nothing they can do. Its a part they claim doesn't work but this particular part I have a machine that tests/runs the part and I do so prior to putting them into the box. Its a heavy 30lb item and I am going to be out $50-$80 shipping.

 

I don't accept 30 days returns so I talked to the rep to see if it would help with all of these bogus returns I have been getting and I was told my best bet if I want better protection from buyer return fraud is to find a different venue. I was under the impression there was some sort of seller protection if I accepted 30 day returns but that's a false assumption. I sell parts/used parts and there really isn't much better venue than ebay. I heard amazon was worse. I've invested a great deal of time and capital to get of the ground and ebay's poor policy, turning a blind eye to return fraud (even when buyer admits to it) is costing me a lot of money, and more so sanity. 

 

The amount of people that lie just to return an item, or to avoid paying shipping costs is really sad. Knowingly allowing the behavior (with proof) to happen on your platform should be criminal. I'm sure its a matter of time before I get the extra 5% treatment.   Unfortunately unless I can find a better venue, where I can somehow transfer my thousands of hours worth of listings I am stuck accepting "its the cost of doing business" line. 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

Sorry to hear about your experiences but it seems to be all to common of a thing these days with the eBay sellers. While I have not totally moved off of eBay I have diversified considerably to other online selling forums many of which have lower fees than eBay and offer considerably more seller protection against scamming, while at the same time balancing it out with buyer guarantees.  I wish you continued success however you decide to proceed. 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly


@flyingmvp wrote:

 

seeing someone at your level migrating his listing elsewhere is not a good sign.

 


I suppose in their mind there are just a ton of top rated OEM auto part sellers and that one leaving won't hurt very much. Over 2 million in annual sales, you'd think they would get the picture.

 

 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly


@dbfolks166mt wrote:

Sorry to hear about your experiences but it seems to be all to common of a thing these days with the eBay sellers. While I have not totally moved off of eBay I have diversified considerably to other online selling forums many of which have lower fees than eBay and offer considerably more seller protection against scamming, while at the same time balancing it out with buyer guarantees.  I wish you continued success however you decide to proceed. 


We started several years back slowly moving to other areas as well, it is extremely sad things have progressed (or regressed) on here in such a shady way. 

 

Wishing you nothing but the best as well.

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

The seller metrics scheme scam is well known, it's rigged and it's easy money maker for the venue. 

I have bookmarked this older discussion more then a year ago to use as a reference, see if things will turn around, but it only matured and developed to the point where very large and successful sellers are moving their listing away from the venue. 

Good luck to us all.

 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Seller-Metrics-The-new-cash-grab-SCAM-from-ebay/m-p/29741402/t...

 

 

Seller Metrics..The new cash grab SCAM from ebay

I've got to hand it to ebay, I really do.  They are so "ever creative" with their schemes and scams to put their hands in sellers pockets..It really is disgraceful and sickening.

 

The newest SCAM (and make no mistake, this is a SCAM folks) is "Seller Metrics"...

 

If you aren't fully versed in this scheme yet, get acquainted with it quickly;  because it has the capacity and potential to add THOUSANDS of dollars to your ebay invoice each month (depending on how much you sell, and your prices, etc)..

 

Basically the way this works now is this:  eBay looks at your "Selling Category", and evaluates the "average" number of "returns" your "peers" are receiving for:

 

1) Item not as described

2) Item arrived damaged 

3) Item is defective not working

4) Missing part or pieces

5) Wrong item sent

 

All of these "reasons" a buyer can completely arbitrarily select for their return?  Fall under the "Item not as described" category of return. 

 

There is of COURSE no validation on eBay's part to make sure these claims are even true at all (and I'll get to that in a moment).  All the buyer needs to do is simply "open" the return selecting any of these reasons?  And your seller metrics are impacted.

 

So, ebay then takes a tally of these returns among your "peers" of other sellers, and they set a very handy "percentage rate" of overall returns of this nature. 

 

So in a specific category your "peers" maybe be performing at a 7.04% return rate lets say (or at least this is what ebay tells you). 

 

You are then measured against your peers, and your return rate is Very High against their numbers?  Well, of course ebay then has decided that they need to penalize you to the tune of an additional 4% on all your final value fees.

 

Also of course, you have ZERO way of validating their "returns data" in any way shape or form, and obviously it would behoove ebay to report the lowest percentage possible to you?  Because they stand to profit tremendously, the lower that number is and the higher your "percentages are in comparison..

 

So there's part one of the scam, how its all laid out.  But of course, it gets better!! It always does, doesn't it??

 

So ebay has also decided, to make sure they can bilk as many unsuspecting sellers out of as much cash as they can?  That if you are NOT selling 400 items per 90 days?  Well then, each of these returns stays on your "record" for a full 12 MONTHS..

 

Only if you are selling over 400 items or more very 90 days?  Then they let them only count for 90 days (how nice of them)...

 

And heres ONLY one of the real kickers about this wonderful new scam..Did I say scam?  I meant "Policy", sorry..

Once a buyer merely OPENS one of these returns?  It automatically counts against you.  It DOES NOT MATTER..I repeat IT DOES NOT MATTER:

 

1) If ebay closes the return in your favor (for whatever reason that may happen)

2) It is found that the buyer is a "scammer" who opened the return in any attempt to extort you as a seller, or for any other nefarious reason.  EVEN IF you can prove this, in black and white?  And ebay can CONFIRM that this was the case?  They DO NOT care, the return stays on your metrics for 12 months

3) The buyer opens a return, making up a fake story about the item being defective, etc, in order to try to get you to give them a partial refund (EXTREMELY COMMON SCAM ON EBAY).  Upon refusing to give the buyer a partial refund and asking for the item back to validate the buyers "claims"?  The buyer disappears and never sends back the item.  Making that a bogus return.  Guess what?  Because they OPENED THE RETURN?  You get hit...End of story.  Even with all EVIDENCE in black and white that the buyer was trying to pull a scam.

4) eBay closes the return because the buyer never sends the item back.  You would think that would invalidate a "return", as NOTHING was EVER "returned"...But not under eBay's service metrics!! No sir..You're stuck with the return on your record

5) You can PROVE that you listed a defect the item had IN THE LISTING.  TOOK PHOTOS OF THE DEFECT, AND MADE EVERYTHING CLEAR.  The buyer refuses to read the listing to know what they are buying?  Then makes a RETURN stating that the item was "Not as described" because it has the defect you listed clearly...Guess what??  Doesn't matter, YOU are hit with a defect  Regardless of whether you can PROVE once again, that you did the right thing..

 

Now, if that wasn't bad enough in and of itself? They've also made it: IMPOSSIBLE TO APPEAL THESE DEFECTS..

 

Here's a perfect example of this SCAM in operation, and what I just went through personally a few days ago: 

 

We listed an item with a screen in the "For Parts, Not working" category.  We clearly stated and PHOTOGRAPHED the defect the item had which was a hairline crack in the screen, and could not have made it more clear what the issue was with the item.

 

Buyer comes on, buys the item as is.  To our knowledge THEY READ THE LISTING (or at least this is what you would think).  Buyer gets the item, and immediately opens a return stating that "The item is defective, not working".  They list the reason in their own words as : "The screen is cracked".  

 

Huh?????????????? This was all over the listing..What gives here.  We contact the buyer and they admit they did not fully read the listing and they are sorry.  We pay for the return, no harm, no foul and it was over.  They even left us a positive feedback.  We provided them EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE given the circumstance.

 

But of course, this doesn't end here, because NOW?  This goes against our "Service Metrics" count, and raises our percentage.

 

So, being rational people, thinking we are dealing with an HONEST company with ebay?  We call the seller performance department, and clearly show them what happened here.  We show them the listing, the buyer return reason, and even the message where the buyer stated clearly that they did not read the listing and this was their fault.  

 

The CS rep acknowledges all of this and agrees that we did nothing wrong, and this should not count against us.  HOWEVER??  There is no WAY for them to APPEAL service metrics defects, nor remove them..

 

And this is because, eBay's "rational" here, is that EVERYONE in this category is dealing with buyers like this, and these things "happen" to everyone...It doesn't matter in anyway if this was a VALID RETURN, FOR A VALID REASON STATED BY THE BUYER...That makes NO DIFFERENCE at all..They can and WILL NOT appeal these types of "defects"...

 

Case closed..

 

When you have a "policy" in place?  Which TOTALLY discounts the TRUTH of any situation..And a company who REFUSES to look at EVIDENCE PUT IN THEIR FACES which show the TRUTH and REALITY of a return, or any other claims by a "buyer" ?    And this company is DIRECTLY BENEFITTING FROM TURNING THIS BLIND EYE???

 

There's ONE word for that, and one word only:  

S C A M!!!!!!

And it just gets worse, and worse and worse as you go down the line..Because the example I just gave is ONLY an example of buyer INATTENTION now possibly costing us more money..

 

If you want to really get irate?  I'll tell you how ebay ALSO refuses to remove this type of return from your record??  When buyers ACTIVELY TRY TO SCAM YOU, AND THIS IS PROVEN AND EBAY CLOSES THE RETURN AS A RESULT...And yet?  They still refuse to remove the return from the seller metric count...

 

In my mind?  This is nothing short of  CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR

 

Keep in mind also?  This "policy" is also being instituted by a company who actually ENCOURAGES RETURNS from every buyer, and FORCES sellers to make those returns FREE, or they don't get their discounts, etc....

 

I think it is very, very clear here we are no longer dealing with an Honest, Upright company here..And instead we are dealing with people INTENT on robbing every dime they can from us, in the most disgusting, despicable ways they can think up...

 

SELLER METRICS = CASH GRAB SCAM!!!!!!!!!!

 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

Personally, I am not certain I have ever seen E-Bay remove a INAD claim by a buyer, even after the buyer was reported and you can clearly show they filed falsely.  The best example I have is that I sold the empty box a vintage toy came in, and put "BOX ONLY" in the description and in the listing.

I got an INAD with a message from the seller saying it was because I sold him an empty box.  I reported the buyer, clearly pointing on his claim as "not as described" false.  I don't believe it was ever removed.

I have never had to worry about paying the extra fees though, because fortunately I don't get many claims.  When I do get a false claim, I fight it vigorously.

 

I personally don't think E-Bay does anything when you report a buyer, other than throw your report in a trash bin somewhere.

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

Funny. I have 16 return cases open currently. My category is Cellphones and Smartphones which usually has around a 10% return rate all across the board.

 

95% of the phones I get back are 100% functional or as described. Yet most returns, the buyer marks defective because they couldn't figure something out. 

 

The other 5% is usually a listing error. 

 

Awhile ago a buyer opened up a SNAD case BEFORE I shipped the item. BEFORE! eBay refused to remove the defect from my service metrics. 

 

I'm well aware of the service metrics SCAM and am sick and tired of it. Just a few nights ago, I reported ebay to the Better Business Bureua. I strongly suggest everyone here do the same. If this gets enough traction, something may be done. 

 

This is nothing but fraud and everyone knows it. We are being punished for things out of our control.

 

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started

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I also filed a BBB complaint. Yes, everyone affected by these penalty fees should do that right now. This issue IS getting traction. See recent story published on EcommerceBytes:

 

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2020/11/1606698542.html#leavecomment

 

Then, file a BBB complaint:

 

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started

 

 

 

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Re: Service Metrics - The Equivalent of Stealing Money Outwardly

Ebay manipulates the Service Metrics numbers causing Sellers to go into the "Very High" rating when they are do their monthly update on the 20th! (See photos showing before and after adjustments).Taken at 12/20/20 at 8:48pm MSTTaken at 12/20/20 at 8:48pm MSTTaken at 12/20/20 at 10:36pm MSTTaken at 12/20/20 at 10:36pm MST

 

Last night (12/20/20 at 8:48pm MST) I took a screen-shot of my Service Metrics page showing my projected performance rate as being "High" with a 1.67 rating (31/1854 Transactions) and my Peers as .75. Then at (12/20/20 at 10:36pm MST) the totals lowered to a 1.46 rating (27/1854 Transactions) which was a 13% reduction in defects. Apparently Ebay actually removed 4 of the many disputes we had formally filed and reported as instructed by Ebay. Note, the Peers numbers were too reduced down from the .75 to .65 (A 13% reduction as well). The weird part is now we were bumped up into "Very High"... WHAT? I have 4 defects removed, drop my defect percent down from 1.67 to 1.46, and I now get penalized with a 5% total transaction fee penalty resulting in a 50% increase in selling fees.

 

Imagine if your Landlord came to you and said "I know rent is normally $3,000 but for the next 30-days I am going to charge you $4,500. You did everything we asked you to do this month and you even proportionately reduced your defects the same as your Peers but we are going to charge you 1.5x's your rent because we can. I would love to explain it to you but I have no clue as to why I am doing this". 

 

FYI: Same thing happened to us the prior month. No one at Ebay can explain it to me other than its some algorithm that they use and no one knows the exact particulars. 

 

THIS IS ETHICALLY WRONG AND MUST STOP!!! Would love for an Attorney General to investigate Ebay and hold them accountable for their billing manipulation.  I have been with Ebay since 2004 and have seen time and time again billing errors that even after reporting continue to this day. Ebay has a repeated behavior of over billing and one day it will bring this platform down. Unfortunately, it will bring down all the hard working honest Sellers with them.

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