eBay

rockbottomauto · ‎08-21-2020

We are one of the larger sellers of OEM auto parts on eBay, and have been for many years.

We offer completely free returns, even for buyers that simply "change their minds", but of course every month we enter the "very high items not as described" threshold.

Every single case that has been opened against us for "items not as described" has been completely proven that the buyer simply ordered the wrong part for their application. The words "items not as described" should equate that we sent the customer the wrong part, or a part that was not in brand new condition etc. Buyers know in all facets of online shopping they just need to lie a little to get what they want.

Furthermore, if we are offering "free returns", why should we be penalized with an extra 5% of fees anyway? It's not like the good folks at eBay are footing the bill for us, we are still out the shipping costs both ways.

We sell exactly the same amount of parts on Amazon every single month, and guess what? We get about 80% less in returns from the parts sold on Amazon. Why is that you ask? eBay encourages scam behavior.

I know you guys are losing market share and there probably won't be an eBay in 10 years, but you really should strongly consider erasing this policy and I mean quickly. We started last year making plans to leave eBay, and are going to do so sooner rather than later.

Shameless cash grabs are a sign of desperation, and a message to the community that you are scared to death of going under.

corvettestainless · ‎08-21-2020

I think the number has 'falsley moved 'down' for the category of 'motors- parts/accessories'. Auto parts have a much greater than 1.08% returns; many times people are 'guessing' what the problem is, other times they have no business lifting the hood much less trying to install. In the old days, 'Electronic' components sold at auto parts stores were NOT returnable.

rockbottomauto · ‎08-21-2020

@corvettestainless wrote:
I think the number has 'falsley moved 'down' for the category of 'motors- parts/accessories'. Auto parts have a much greater than 1.08% returns; many times people are 'guessing' what the problem is, other times they have no business lifting the hood much less trying to install. In the old days, 'Electronic' components sold at auto parts stores were NOT returnable.

This exactly. Misdiagnosis, then they return the part while claiming it was "not as described" to avoid responsibility.

It's truly pathetic on eBay's part to condone this type of behavior.

eleanor*rigby · ‎08-21-2020

@mr_lincoln wrote:

I do not recall reading where ANY Seller has defended that metric ... I could actually see where a CLA could be filed for that particular metric and succeed ...

Sorry, but what does "CLA" stand for? (I did try to research it myself but couldn't find any explanation that fit this context.)

gwzcomps · ‎08-21-2020

Luckily in your case you are selling on multiple platforms. I have personally made the grave mistake of building the majority of my business around eBay due to the types of items I sell. I am learning the hard way the costs of my stupidity. I am fortunate that I am in a good position financially and am good at adapting. Now it is just a timing game for me.

Hopefully you can get a resolution, but eBay has made it quite clear they don't care if they are scamming their sellers. I guess eBay is right. Getting scammed by eBay is the cost of doing business. One I personally hope to cut eBay out of my life eventually.

mr_lincoln · ‎08-21-2020

@eleanor*rigby wrote:
@mr_lincoln wrote:

I do not recall reading where ANY Seller has defended that metric ... I could actually see where a CLA could be filed for that particular metric and succeed ...

Sorry, but what does "CLA" stand for? (I did try to research it myself but couldn't find any explanation that fit this context.)

Class Action Lawsuit ...

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - eBay Community Mentor

mr_lincoln · ‎08-21-2020

@rockbottomauto wrote:
@corvettestainless wrote:
I think the number has 'falsley moved 'down' for the category of 'motors- parts/accessories'. Auto parts have a much greater than 1.08% returns; many times people are 'guessing' what the problem is, other times they have no business lifting the hood much less trying to install. In the old days, 'Electronic' components sold at auto parts stores were NOT returnable.
This exactly. Misdiagnosis, then they return the part while claiming it was "not as described" to avoid responsibility.

It's truly pathetic on eBay's part to condone this type of behavior.

@corvettestainless Agreed ...

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - eBay Community Mentor

eleanor*rigby · ‎08-21-2020

"CLA" stands for "Class Action Lawsuit?"

Okay . . . thanks.

corvettestainless · ‎08-21-2020

Part of the deal is that 'A' is still much higher % of the sale; so even at 13% instead of 8% (w/ store, no MP figured for this), it's less than the 20% that A charges.

For me, I custom make items that over 60% are only made by me, so if I exceed and join the 'extra 5%' club, I'll just raise the price... and then it's 1 less thing to worry about.

valueaddedresource · ‎08-21-2020

@corvettestainless wrote:
I think the number has 'falsley moved 'down' for the category of 'motors- parts/accessories'. Auto parts have a much greater than 1.08% returns; many times people are 'guessing' what the problem is, other times they have no business lifting the hood much less trying to install. In the old days, 'Electronic' components sold at auto parts stores were NOT returnable.

@corvettestainless you are exactly right. Just a quick look at all of the sub-categories under Motors>Parts & Accessories makes it obvious that there are many things there which shouldn't be compared against each other in a "peer" class.

Engine mounts and car waxes will obviously have very different return rates. They also lump aviation and boating under that category- both of which are obviously going to have their own rates and even within those sub-categories there will be vastly different rates where you are dealing with specific fitment vs universal fit. In boating, anything specific to a particular year/make/model of motor or any electrical or fuel system components would of course be vastly different than something like a generic cleat that you could use on any boat.

eBay is aware of these issues - they just don't really seem to care.

autotechlighting · ‎08-21-2020

Yep, right there with you. We have several large auto parts selling ID's, too.

Trust me, we've said our piece on this.

I thought maybe seller protections announced a few months would finally solve this (which is what frugality_inc was referencing). That is where the fine print begins, though, and why they aren't getting their defects removed. When those new seller protections were made, they said you can report a buyer for misusing returns (by using wrong return reason) and they will credit your shipping label fee and remove the service metric defect. However, the little fine print said this does not apply if you are "very high" in service metrics. So, in other words, the very people being affected by this don't even have the ability to use the tool to possibly fix the issue. In other words, empty promise (even though I've heard from sellers who are low, normal, etc. who report buyers that they aren't removing them from their service metrics either).

The whole service metrics in general is a mess. We are TRS on all our other ID's (all with over 40,000 FB and 99.5-100% feedback.....10-20 year old accounts) yet apparently we suck so much they are charging us more fees due to the service metrics.

Now, I will say I think the service metrics is a decent idea......but like a lot of other things, the auto category is not one of them where it fits. 99% of people don't know much about cars and go about buying stuff. I have zero issue even with them counting open cases BUT CS REPS NEED TO BE GIVEN THE ABILITY TO DE-SCORE THESE when we can demonstrate the return reason is really buyer faulted. They allow this on normal feedback which counts for nothing but not on something that actually hits sellers in the pocket books. These are failed policies in real life application.

zamo-zuan · ‎08-21-2020

@autotechlighting wrote:

When those new seller protections were made, they said you can report a buyer for misusing returns (by using wrong return reason) and they will credit your shipping label fee and remove the service metric defect.

Obligatory to say.... They also "forgot" to mention that part of the "new seller protections" included no longer protecting sellers when the buyers break the eBay Money Back Guarantee if they alter items!

So now a buyer can openly alter their items, even admit it, and you have to accept the return and only can give a 50% refund...

Honestly it makes no sense to me. The protections were supposed to have been improved upon, not "traded off" elsewhere.

ittybitnot · ‎08-21-2020

@rockbottomauto

I have an additional question about this issue. You give free returns for any reason. Suppose I bought something from you and for whatever reason need to return it. IF I just start the return and perhaps select "changed my mind" instead of a SNAD are you penalized on the metrics simply because I started a return? or do they have one that records too many returns as well. Though I sold here for over 22 years, I don't anymore so I don't know.

or

do I just contact you and ask for my "free return" shipping label.....and you cancel the sale after the fact?

I am simply curious.

For grins and giggles, I happen to be a very OLD LADY with an OLD car. I need a fuel pump. LOL...(you don't have the one I need, I already looked so you are safe). I have fixed lots of stuff myself, radiator, windshield wiper assembly, door hand assembly, and starter motor. I am OLD and also poor, and the fuel pump basically looks like a plug and play. I am VERY careful about what I order and if I broke it once I got it, that would be on ME. I may be an amateur out of financial necessity, but I have a conscience, as I am still an online seller as well (someplace else).

Hopefully, you and the other sellers in FVF punishment camp will find a suitable solution to this problem.

postingid7659 · ‎08-21-2020

Unfortunately it looks like your only recourse is to not sell here. eBay may, or may not get the message.

You're right, of course, to hold the seller to blame every time someone makes a return is wrong. When a system depends on the public to report problems and those reported have no defense, it's ripe for abuse. It's a little like when I listed on Craigslist and people would report things they didn't understand or didn't like to where I couldn't keep the ad going for even a few days at a time.

But on eBay common sense rarely prevails and getting them to understand that allowing buyers to abuse the system only drives sellers over to competitive sites will only work when sellers actually leave for the other sites.

The categories I sell in I rarely get returns but I have had a few where people buy and don't understand what they bought - the last two both people claimed SNAD and the problems they complained about were stated right in the listing for them to see before buying. In one instance the item appeared to have never been removed from the packing I sent it in.

I should be able to show someone at eBay that part of the listing and at least force the buyer to eat all the shipping costs on the item. That would serve two purposes, make buyers actually think a little before making a return, and if they do return at least they're not stealing the shipping costs from me for them to "try the thing on" so to speak and put it back.

rockbottomauto · ‎08-22-2020

@ittybitnot to your first question, we are penalized for "too many returns", but do not see increases to our metrics for "changed my mind" customers. (though let's be honest, no one ever picks that reason, I wonder why?) All we receive day in and day out is customer damaged parts, returned parts that we did not even sell, the occasional brick (not joking), etc. We could not have any more deceitful buyers than we have.

Over the past 6 months, we have emailed every customer basically begging them to contact us for a return label no questions asked. We do not cancel the sale, so as long as they do not open a case it does not count against us. At this point, we are basically hemorrhaging money to stay in business on here, and it's about run it's course.

The biggest thing you want to keep in mind with a fuel pump replacement is to see if whether or not your application requires dropping the fuel tank for replacement. If it does not, you are correct it is very much "plug and play".

rockbottomauto · ‎08-22-2020

@autotechlighting basically what they wanted was for anyone with "very high" services metrics to stay there forever. The CS reps were very understanding of our issue early on and helped us greatly, now they have been told to tell us to pound sand.

12% in fees to sell an item (including paypal) is more than enough, when you bump it to 17% it is clearly time to move on. I know they don't think it's possible, but I promise you there won't be an eBay one day and shady moves like this will be a big part of that.