eBay

e-sister11 · ‎04-03-2018

I don't know if this has been covered here, but I noticed a disdain for older topics anyhow, so I thought I'd better start fresh:

Please list pros and cons regarding the fees for listing a basic auction item such as a pre-owned handbag.

I've noticed that a seller could actually lose money if not careful because eBay counts SHIPPING as part of your profit, even though for mine, the shipping calculated barely covered the actual price of shipping I paid, so the discount wasn't helpful since eBay is taiking a fee based on the larger shipping amount, and then Paypal takes their cuts on top of that (before eBay takes their cut, so on the gross, not net).

Don't offer me a discount, then, already, eBay?!

I calculated, as a new seller, based on my first ten sales, that on average, the fees ate up about 25% of the actual selling price of the item alone- once shippingcame out and eBay & PayPal took their cuts.

So I was wondering, if I charge free shipping and try to calculate a flat ship rate into the selling price, will eBay take a cut on the shipping I actually pay in addition to their 10% off the total sale?

Will I lose on shipping if someone farther away buys it? Will people even look at my auction if the price is higher, but free shipping?

And finally, what polite advice can anyone offer to make the margins more appealing to a new seller?

Feeling disappointed in the process. Thanks in advance.

ymeagainlord · ‎04-03-2018

The fees you pay without a store are 10% on both the shipping & item price and then 2.9% for PayPal to process the transaction plus a fee of .30. So all up the MOST you can pay (using free listings and no upgrades) would be 12.9% plus the .30 PP fee.

I honestly don't see where you're getting fees of 18 to 28%

Crusader Cat is watching

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. - L Tolstoy

"You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not however, entitled to your own facts."

e-sister11 · ‎04-03-2018

Please refer to post #69

ted_200 · ‎04-03-2018

@e-sister11wrote:
Thanks again, dtexley, Grumpy Old Man Crew.
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"No, this is not correct you simply can't fold your shipping cost onto your fees like that."
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Well, I tend to disagree with you about how to view the FEES on shipping, and PayPal. I view them as FEES since they're called FEES. 🙂
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I'm being coy, I know (Grumpy Old Woman Crew I guess).
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If you are charged fees on shipping, which you are, then that's a fee I count against my profit because they aren't covered by the buyer in shipping.

As I mentioned, I'm hesitant to charge handling fees, but I see the necessity of it. This does get added into your total sale, though, right? Thus fees apply.
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As several pointed out, trying to charge for what you want to get doesn't seem to work, but if the price is low, and bidders bite, then the price often escalates past what you initially wanted to charge. However, if that doesn't happen, and the price is too low, that can sting.

Thanks for the heads up about the FR conundrum possibility.
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And agreed about the ones to ignore; No... they can't help themselves... neither can I in reply.
Grrrr.... (Upload Grumpy Cat Face)

Cheers

We can all parse this fee stuff six ways from Sunday, at the end of the day the market will bear what the market will bear, and it costs what it costs.

When eBay decided to charge fee on the Shipping Cost in 2011, that was a fee hike. How much? It depends. If you sold $10 items that cost $20 to ship, it was HUGE. If you'd already bought into the Free Shipping unicorn, and you sold Fixed Price, you actually got a 1% FVF cut (they rolled the rate back one point).

Before 2011, you got charged fees on the item price. If it was 8.5%, that's not the same as 8.5% on the item price + the shipping - it's MORE... in the case of my $10 item cited above, it's THREE TIMES more. That's how 10% ends up being more than 10%.

Bottom line, it costs quite a bit to sell here (I'm north of 16% because of listing fees), and the post office is certainly not helping any with their rate increases either. I'm sure eBay loves it though, because eBay is charging fees on it, so the higher the postage cost, the more eBay makes! Those are about the only things you can count on long term: The post office and eBay will raise fees every year.

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.

e-sister11 · ‎04-03-2018

I took your advice and executed this search on eBay: heritage laptop bag, "sold listings"\

RESULT: 0 results for heritage laptop bag, "sold listings"

I also tried it with "Completed Listings"- a later suggestion. This yielded the same.

Standing by.

castlemagicmemories · ‎04-03-2018

With all due respect, despite your stating repeatedly you only asked one question, you asked a plethora of questions.

And I pointed out to you that the question you said you did not get an answer to was actually answered earlier in the thread in post # 19.

There are no assumptions about your measuring abilities, or how to use a calculator, come from your admitted problems with the calculator, as of course you will not get a wholly accurate shipping cost if you do not input the proper dimensions. As for the issues with the calculator, you insist that your percentages are correct.

It is incomprehensible to me that one would ask questions, yet push back on the seasoned sellers who have answered and tried to help you. If you re-read the thread, there were many who stated exactly what the FVF's and PP fees actually are.

The clarity of the OP or lack thereof is not the fault of any judge, IMO.

With all due respect, I understood and reiterated in previous posts the many questions you asked. If you re-read your OP, which is why I repeated it in a previous post, that is apparent.

Good luck.

castlemagicmemories · ‎04-03-2018

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tax-tips-for-online-auction-sellers

ymeagainlord · ‎04-03-2018

I DID read it.

Your math is off.

Crusader Cat is watching

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. - L Tolstoy

"You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not however, entitled to your own facts."

ymeagainlord · ‎04-03-2018

@e-sister11wrote:

Here's and actual example:
Pre-owned Paper Shredder
Sale Price: $9.00
Calculated Shipping: $10.49
Total: $19.49
Actual shipping; $10.21
Fees:
*FV-$.90
*SFV-$1.05
*PP- $0.87
Total Fees-$2.82
minus the $0.28 shipping discount, total fees= $2.54
$9.00-$2.54= $6.46 net
2.54/9= 28.2% in fees

GET IT NOW?

I have no idea why you're deducting the $2.54 from ONLY the item cost (or why you're taking the shipping discount into it either).

Crusader Cat is watching

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. - L Tolstoy

"You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not however, entitled to your own facts."

ted_200 · ‎04-03-2018

IF the seller is ok with just one bid for $18.99, then that is the amount she will accept and she would not be listing for less than what she would accept.

Hindsight is great. You are looking at a completed listing. That same listing might have ended with one bid at $18.99. Just listing lower does not guarantee that you will have more than one bid on the item.

That is very true. They might well relist that item that way - the exact same item/listing - and it might sell for $18.99. There is risk in an auction. There is also potential reward.

And quite often, listing an auction at the "not less than you will accept" price does guarantees you will not have more than one bid on the item.

I only make the point because you continue to post:

Never list for less than you will accept for the item.

... despite having shown you 6,643 reasons this absolutist statement is not always good advice. An auction with 0 or 1 bid isn't really an auction. In this case, the 18.99 price attracted at least 2 people interested in buying the shoes, and they ended up paying (well... they were supposed to pay...) $15 more than the old start price that didn't attract any bids at all.

I"m no expert in shoes, so I can't say whether trying to sell them with a real auction is folly or not... OP could have just got lucky... but I do know for what I sell, a 99¢ start auction moves more product, AND produces better prices. That's not an absolutist statement, your position is often the correct one - depending on what is being sold.

I don't know why any seller hoping for a 1 bid auction result with a hard minimum acceptable price wouldn't just list it Fixed Price. That should be the common advice from the Board. High start price auction listings (encouraged by eBay's Free Listing policy) is what is primarily responsible for the decline of the auction format in many categories here.

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.

castlemagicmemories · ‎04-03-2018

@ted_200wrote:
@jomor_61wrote:
@e-sister11wrote:
Thanks for the polite reply and I agree, it punishes the rest of us when they ding us for shipping.
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I just want to sell some of my junk that might be someone else's treasure. I wouldn't charge shipping at all if possible. The "calculated shipping" doesn't cover the fees on the shipping. That effectively means eBay takes about 20% off your selling price, and then PayPal gets theirs, which is twice 2.9% + 30 cents... about 25% off the sale price of the item alone. It's hidden to sellers unless they do the math.
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I'm flabbergasted that these repliers, many of them, do not see that it amounts to about 25% in fees off the item sale price! Do they actually sell things on eBay? Or did they not do the math? They think MY math is wonky! Hilarious!
YOU DO NOT PAY 25%

You pay 10% for the TOTAL transaction (item cost + shipping).
The you pay the 2.9 % + .30 to PayPal.

At most you pay 13%

Most of us have sold her for many, many years and we would know if we were paying 25%.

Now here is how to price an item
Start with your the amount you need to profit.
Add in fees, packing materials, and anything else that causes you not to profit.

Next either add you shipping in or charge shipping. If you add shipping, put a handling cost in to cover the fees.

If you can't make a profit like that, you're either doing it wrong or selling the wrong stuff.
I sell every single listing I put up, and my fees run about 18%.

Look. If shipping is $20, and you charge $20 for it, you only get $17.42 after eBay/PayPal fees. That's $2.58 in loss that is going to get counted against your profit.

13% you say? My ASP is $10, so the 0.30 PayPal flat fee makes that 16%. That's on total revenue received. I don't keep all that revenue, I have to pay some of it out for shipping. As a percentage of revenue I keep, it's higher. As a percentage of PROFIT, the fees are even higher. If your margins are fairly low, fees might well exceed 100% of profit.

The fees here are too high. It is what it is, but it isn't 13%.

Seven questions in the OP. OP says there was one.

Again, good luck.

e-sister11 · ‎04-03-2018

@e-sister11wrote: Thanks again, dtexley, Grumpy Old Man Crew. . "No, this is not correct you simply can't fold your shipping cost onto your fees like that." . Well, I tend to disagree with you about how to view the FEES on shipping, and PayPal. I view them as FEES since they're called FEES. 🙂 . I'm being coy, I know (Grumpy Old Woman Crew I guess). . If you are charged fees on shipping, which you are, then that's a fee I count against my profit because they aren't covered by the buyer in shipping. As I mentioned, I'm hesitant to charge handling fees, but I see the necessity of it. This does get added into your total sale, though, right? Thus fees apply. . As several pointed out, trying to charge for what you want to get doesn't seem to work, but if the price is low, and bidders bite, then the price often escalates past what you initially wanted to charge. However, if that doesn't happen, and the price is too low, that can sting. Thanks for the heads up about the FR conundrum possibility. . And agreed about the ones to ignore; No... they can't help themselves... neither can I in reply. Grrrr.... (Upload Grumpy Cat Face) Cheers We can all parse this fee stuff six ways from Sunday, at the end of the day the market will bear what the market will bear, and it costs what it costs. When eBay decided to charge fee on the Shipping Cost in 2011, that was a fee hike. How much? It depends. If you sold $10 items that cost $20 to ship, it was HUGE. If you'd already bought into the Free Shipping unicorn, and you sold Fixed Price, you actually got a 1% FVF cut (they rolled the rate back one point). Before 2011, you got charged fees on the item price. If it was 8.5%, that's not the same as 8.5% on the item price + the shipping - it's MORE... in the case of my $10 item cited above, it's THREE TIMES more. That's how 10% ends up being more than 10%. Bottom line, it costs quite a bit to sell here (I'm north of 16% because of listing fees), and the post office is certainly not helping any with their rate increases either. I'm sure eBay loves it though, because eBay is charging fees on it, so the higher the postage cost, the more eBay makes! Those are about the only things you can count on long term: The post office and eBay will raise fees every year.

AH HA! I figured out "Pull Quote!" See, I'm not that dense...it just takes me a while, ppl!

ted_200, you are so spot on every time! I mean, I'm really impressed. Seriously.

About "parsing this fee stuff six ways from Sunday," about the "Free Shipping Unicorn," (X-D) LOL, about the 2011 shipping fee being a BIG fee hike (I sold a few things around 2000, 2001- it wasn't this bad back then), about how the FEES ACTUALLY DO ADD UP TO MORE than 10 %!!!

So glad I'm not the only one who can see it. Are we really that much of a minority? That's scary. I took College Calculus for Science Majors in College. But I only got a B. What about you?

ymeagainlord · ‎04-03-2018

Too bad when you did it it came up in HUGE BOLD font......

Crusader Cat is watching

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. - L Tolstoy

"You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not however, entitled to your own facts."

ted_200 · ‎04-03-2018

GET IT NOW?

Yeah. It's a $9 sale, and the fees got calculated based on $19.49.

They're still going to insist it's 10%, and eBay will probably tell you it's the "Lowest Fees Ever!" (a famous quote from them after they raised FVF 68% in 2008).

It's good you're paying attention at least... a lot of people end up losing money selling here and never even realize it!

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.

e-sister11 · ‎04-03-2018

Okay that PULL QUOTE doesn't look all neat & small with the grey vertical lines like everyone else's. Guess I didn't figure that one out after all...
😞