Seller Protections- I was covered but so was the buyer. How will they learn?

[corvettestainless]

Short Story: customer damaged, should know better than to return, returned anyway, I accepted and refunded 50% because customer ruined. Ebay pd the other 50% when buyer opened case after I refunded.

Longer: TRS seller- I build and ship new shiny covers for engines (show cars). Buyer purchased $100 item,  peeled the factory pvc coating (not returnable, not re-sellable after that, noted right on the product along with attachment instructions, fitment make/model etc.), removed the pre-applied 3M 2 Sided Tape and installed- then tried to remove, bent it removing (tape is strong) and returned it, coating removed, tape exposed, not wrapped, packing popcorn all stuck to the tape and chrome spray paint all over the tape (obviously tried painting that part of their engine and then stuck our cover on). I offer returns, but not free- buyer pays (items are shipped 'free' so I eat, in this case, $15 to ship $100 item). 

Buyer opened a return that it 'didn't fit' (only sold about 200 of these since 2011 with 0 issues) and 'bent'. It had a sharp bend in it that would have been obvious had it been bent upon arrival- customer would not have even attempted to install, much less peel the coating, peel the 2 sided tape etc. (shipped 10,000+, never 1 damaged). The buyer obviously lied about condition, ruined product and then had the nerve to 'return' it. I, personally would never, but that's me. 

For 1st time, I used TRS Seller Protections: I Refunded 50% and attached pictures as well as 'reported' for returning item 'used' 'missing parts' etc. (I have 3 returns in 900 transactions, so returns are not often. 

Same day, buyer opened case, Ebay closed and Ebay refunded the buyer the other half on their dime. I have 3000, buyer has 300. They state I have to 'do nothing', metric not count, refunded by them etc. 

My question is- how is this person ever going to learn that they can't damage stuff, return it, only to be fully covered by ebay?

I'm also wondering- will this effect my sales going forward? 

Thoughts? 

[dhbookds]

I'm sure if the buyer cost ebay $$, they are now on the radar.......and may be excluded from the Guarantee if they try it again.........  There have been a couple of buyers stating that they have been excluded.......We can't see that kind of stuff and most would be too smart to post about it; but apparently it has happened........  Just the fact you only refunded half......should put them on notice.

As far as affecting you, I would guess this one won't.......but if you get too many, they will probably come down on you........

[gracieallen01]

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@corvettestainless wrote:

Short Story: customer damaged, should know better than to return, returned anyway, I accepted and refunded 50% because customer ruined. Ebay pd the other 50% when buyer opened case after I refunded.

Longer: TRS seller- ....

Same day, buyer opened case, Ebay closed and Ebay refunded the buyer the other half on their dime. I have 3000, buyer has 300. They state I have to 'do nothing', metric not count, refunded by them etc. 

My question is- how is this person ever going to learn that they can't damage stuff, return it, only to be fully covered by ebay?

I'm also wondering- will this effect my sales going forward? 

Thoughts? 

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They aren't going to - they don't have to.

[luckythewinner]

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@corvettestainless wrote:

My question is- how is this person ever going to learn that they can't damage stuff, return it, only to be fully covered by ebay?

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They won't.

But another question you did not ask is "How can eBay be sure that you are telling the truth?"

Because theoretically, a buyer could return a perfect item and the seller could refund half and send eBay pictures of a different damaged item.

[emerald_door]

I'm glad that you were able to deduct something so that the ruined item wasn't a total loss, but it's too bad that eBay rewarded the buyer.  

[ersatz_sobriquet]

Good questions that ebay isn't sharing the intel. If the buyer abused the return process then you need to report the buyer stat. 

[corvettestainless]

@luckythewinner  "Because theoretically, a buyer could return a perfect item and the seller could refund half and send eBay pictures of a different damaged item"

Oh so true; but that 's supposed to be the whole point of the TRS seller protection- my previous history and reputation (3000+, 4500 + feedbacks, 900 transactions a year since 2011, 3 refunds per 900 transactions etc. and I've always just 'gave a refund 100%, even though probably half my returns, the customer has made the item unsellable) is supposed to count for something. Plus, on the 'refund' they provide a place for pictures to be attached. Why bother if they are just fake? 

This is the first time I've done the 50% thingy- now the seller just left a 'neutral' feedback with a negative comment (items do not fit"). I mean, really- I have this original part and test fit it every time it goes out, only designed and been selling these since 2011 and have had 1 other return for this particular item in 10 years because the buyer 'sold his car'... 

[mvls1]

You handled this issue exactly correct. I had one two months ago and followed the same process except I also reported the buyer for abusing the return process by sending back a damaged/used item. I had no problems from using the new process, sales, views, metrics, etc. I deducted 40% plus the shipping, attached a picture of the damage and all went well.

I believe it will be a good program for sellers as long as it is not abused, then we will likely lose it. That is actually why I only deducted 40%.

[myboardid]

Dishonest buyers like yours never learn, they don't ever take responsibility for their behavior.  They are chronic offenders, in many ways.  I'm sorry you had to deal with this.

Your business should not suffer any problems because of this.  You got one return ding, I'm sure that won't affect you in any way.  It takes a lot more than one, or even 3 in a year to cause eBay to get  upset. 

[bigdeals.etc]

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@corvettestainless wrote:

@luckythewinner  "Because theoretically, a buyer could return a perfect item and the seller could refund half and send eBay pictures of a different damaged item"

Oh so true; but that 's supposed to be the whole point of the TRS seller protection- my previous history and reputation (3000+, 4500 + feedbacks, 900 transactions a year since 2011, 3 refunds per 900 transactions etc. and I've always just 'gave a refund 100%, even though probably half my returns, the customer has made the item unsellable) is supposed to count for something. Plus, on the 'refund' they provide a place for pictures to be attached. Why bother if they are just fake? 

This is the first time I've done the 50% thingy- now the seller just left a 'neutral' feedback with a negative comment (items do not fit"). I mean, really- I have this original part and test fit it every time it goes out, only designed and been selling these since 2011 and have had 1 other return for this particular item in 10 years because the buyer 'sold his car'... 

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I know all too well what you are going thru by experience. It's used to happen alot when I primarily had returns for underwear and undergarments. I totally understand you being offended or insulted at how the buyer and ebay are handling this. Even after probably over a hundred of these issues, I'm still not totally de-sensitized yet... they still annoy me albeit much less than before.

Ebay is really on the "get as many buyers to come to the site" mode versus the "teach buyers to follow the rules" mode. This results in getting all the riff-raff along with the good buyers. Just gotta trust that the good buyers outweighs the bad here... which I believe they do.

In regards to your credibility, ebay takes that with a grain of salt. Sellers need to REALLY work hard to gain just a smidge of ebay's trust. Whereas it's flip flopped for buyers.. they don't really have to do much to gain alot of ebay's trust. They already have it at the get go and it takes a great deal of abusive behavior for them to lose it. That's where reporting buyers come in.

A CS rep told me the best way to report a buyer in this situation is to use the "report buyer" link within your sold history page either in the listing itself or Mange Orders page. You have different options there compared to the Return details page. Make sure to report the buyer BEFORE issuing the less than full refund. I think this is because the "report buyer" link in those areas change or become disabled after you've issued any refund and closed it. After you issue the refund make sure you also indicate the reasons for the less than full. That way you essentially reported the buyer in two areas to make sure someone at ebay sees it.

Yes, ebay doesn't know without a doubt who to trust. They do look at how many times a seller issues a "less than full" refund. But you are probably nowhere near being considered as abusing it. I'd say I might be close to triple digits on the less than full... as far as I know ebay hasn't tagged me as abusive or removed that ability for me. If a seller is too afraid to issue a "less than full" and never does it, then ultimately it'd be no different from if they were deemed abusive and not allowed to have that ability anyway. So might as well use it.

[corvettestainless]

The 'report' buyer is now all on the same page and done all at the same time you are doing the refund.. you state the 'amount' you are refunding, there's a checkmark box for 'report this buyer' and when you check it, a drop down appears and you can choose 1-4 reasons, and right below that there is a 4 box for 'insert pictures here' same as it looks when doing a new listing. This is all new, as the last time I did a refund, post this new 'seller' protection' it did not look like this. 

[bigdeals.etc]

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@corvettestainless wrote:

The 'report' buyer is now all on the same page and done all at the same time you are doing the refund.. you state the 'amount' you are refunding, there's a checkmark box for 'report this buyer' and when you check it, a drop down appears and you can choose 1-4 reasons, and right below that there is a 4 box for 'insert pictures here' same as it looks when doing a new listing. This is all new, as the last time I did a refund, post this new 'seller' protection' it did not look like this. 

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Right. That's exactly what I (and the CS rep) was referring to. That's why sellers need to go to the Sold Page (and not the return details) to report the buyer before issuing the refund. That's the only way to send a thorough report under the old (more extensive) format. Once the refund button is clicked, you can no longer do this report. If I recall correctly, the report thru the new format doesn't even have a field for you to type any comments in. You just check a few boxes and that's it. No idea if this tactic was ebay's intention or not. The CS doesn't know neither.

[corvettestainless]

Well, I did get a 'thank you for reporting a buyer' email message, so it must've went somewhere. I'm not naïve enough to think that these reports, which they must receive in the thousands a day, go very far, but the new format sure made it easy to do both.