Screwed by customer and ebay won't investigate...

[ncchoppeshoppe]

I sold an item to a relatively new buyer in Canada and he swapped his old broken parts for my parts and complained that they were damaged in shipping.  When I tried to get an ebay  person to investigate, all they would tell me is that when the customer is not happy we give him back his money. After over 20 years of selling on ebay with no problems, they blew me off and refunded this persons payment. I could not get anyone to talk to that did not have a heavy foreign accent. Now I can't sell on ebay anymore as I will never know if I will get paid or screwed. Apparently long time sellers are due no recourse or respect by ebay employees.

[karinacjb]

An extra note - remember if a buyer has 100% feedback it is totally & utterly meaningless - keeping in mind that a seller can't give them negative feedback even if they are a serial scammer, (returning clothes obviously worn etc), take ages to pay, don't pick up a purchase as arranged, or of course the old -" I bid & won it - now I won't pay or respond to messages'. The last one really gets me - you have lost a sale opportunity window (possibly Xmas, Valentines / Mothers Day etc) and then have to re-list. Buyer feedback shouldn't exist on the current terms & system.

[rainbowcolorz]

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@karinacjb wrote:

An extra note - remember if a buyer has 100% feedback it is totally & utterly meaningless - keeping in mind that a seller can't give them negative feedback even if they are a serial scammer, (returning clothes obviously worn etc), take ages to pay, don't pick up a purchase as arranged, or of course the old -" I bid & won it - now I won't pay or respond to messages'. The last one really gets me - you have lost a sale opportunity window (possibly Xmas, Valentines / Mothers Day etc) and then have to re-list. Buyer feedback shouldn't exist on the current terms & system.

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Thanks ... I know all about buyer feedback.  I like to read feedback (buyers leaving it for sellers and sellers leaving it for buyers) even though now they can ONLY say nice things about a bad buyer (gag).  I never abused the feedback system so when eBay removed our ability to see buyer's IDs, the times I'd see them leave tons of negs for their sellers, I would be able to make my own decision as to whether I'd want that person to buy from me or not.   

I dunno ... I think the feedback system should stay especially since a seller who receives a neg that s/he feels is unwarranted, can come back and respond to explain in a little more detail, in a professional way, what the deal really was.  

[luckythewinner]

 Screwed by customer and ebay won't investigate.

 Apparently long time sellers are due no recourse or respect by ebay employees.

You are correct. There is no way eBay is going to spend the time and money required to investigate a parts-swapping accusation.

eBay has no way to know what you shipped, what the buyer received, what the buyer returned, or what you received as a return.  All they have is the buyers' and sellers' words. 

If eBay rules in favor of buyers, then sellers get screwed because sellers have to pay for the Money Back Guarantee. 

If eBay rules in favor of sellers, then buyers get screwed and eBay has to pay for the Money Back Guarantee. 

Guess which one they pick. 

[hillbillymedia]

"and it would really bother me if I were in her/his shoes but if someone claims, as the OP stated  "that they were damaged in shipping"  - how is eBay supposed to investigate?"

For me this is pretty simple. If the OP has 20 years worth of selling experience with zero problems it should carry , at least some weight, in these issues.  What is ultimately happening is good sellers are leaving this site and being replaced by?

This no questions asked / refund policy is causing issues of mistrust between buyer and seller.  I don`t have the answer, but in any reasonable life scenario we judge by past behavior. I`m going to reasonably assume that the seller with the 20 year perfect record is telling the truth over the buyer the with zero buying experience every time.

In the long term ebay is not going to gain anything by continuing down this path. The only one gaining anything here is the shipping providers because sellers are funding shipping items back and fourth across the nation more than once.

[gracieallen01]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

 Screwed by customer and ebay won't investigate.

 Apparently long time sellers are due no recourse or respect by ebay employees.

You are correct. There is no way eBay is going to spend the time and money required to investigate a parts-swapping accusation.

eBay has no way to know what you shipped, what the buyer received, what the buyer returned, or what you received as a return.  All they have is the buyers' and sellers' words. 

If eBay rules in favor of buyers, then sellers get screwed because sellers have to pay for the Money Back Guarantee. 

If eBay rules in favor of sellers, then buyers get screwed and eBay has to pay for the Money Back Guarantee. 

Guess which one they pick. 

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I do believe, therein lies a problem for many sellers - Other than ebay's capricious decision, based upon a biased assumption of 'what is best' for them, how does ebay justify being judge, jury and executioner, with NO evidence upon which to base their decision?

Why is anyone even allowed to offer such a return program on a commercial platform?

[rainbowcolorz]

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@hillbillymedia wrote:

"and it would really bother me if I were in her/his shoes but if someone claims, as the OP stated  "that they were damaged in shipping"  - how is eBay supposed to investigate?"

For me this is pretty simple. If the OP has 20 years worth of selling experience with zero problems it should carry , at least some weight, in these issues.  What is ultimately happening is good sellers are leaving this site and being replaced by?

This no questions asked / refund policy is causing issues of mistrust between buyer and seller.  I don`t have the answer, but in any reasonable life scenario we judge by past behavior. I`m going to reasonably assume that the seller with the 20 year perfect record is telling the truth over the buyer the with zero buying experience every time.

In the long term ebay is not going to gain anything by continuing down this path. The only one gaining anything here is the shipping providers because sellers are funding shipping items back and fourth across the nation more than once.

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I definitely understand what you said and for the most part, I agree.  But there just has to be a way around this that works out for everyone .... including eBay.   Someone, somewhere, has to come up with a solution.   

[tunicaslot]

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@rainbowcolorz wrote:

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@robot-hands wrote:

Unless sellers make it financially painful for ebay to continue operating like this it will most certainly continue.

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It's unfortunate this happened to a long time seller, and it would really bother me if I were in her/his shoes but if someone claims, as the OP stated  "that they were damaged in shipping"  - how is eBay supposed to investigate?   Even if the package was stamped "damaged in shipping" by the P.O. .... the buyer is entitled to get his $ back, no??  And someone has to pay for the shipping, but certainly not the buyer.  

Maybe eBay could have a Return Resolution Center where they have a fund from which return postage can be taken and paid on behalf of the buyer and seller?

I mean ... wouldn't that loss also be considered "a part of doing business"?   And eBay could possibly just write it off their taxes??  

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But if the item was indeed damaged in shipping - then the buyer should contact the seller so at least the seller can start an insurance claim. Most people are good people when they've been instructed on how to handle the what if scenarios - that is why the push for free returns and the big return buttons are such a farce. They are not allowing people to interact with each other and handle the problem like adults. 

The other sites I'm on or have dealt with allow returns but the "popular" clothing venues ask the buyer to submit documentation of the problem before a return is accepted and the venue sees what the problem is. They want happy buyers but they also want to protect their sellers. And despite that - they are still popular and people are finding deals and sellers are making money.

Our biggest problem here is the lack of trust which gets mentioned way too often on these boards as there are millions of transactions going on daily and a very small % involve scammers let alone problems.

[hillbillymedia]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

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@luckythewinner wrote:

 Screwed by customer and ebay won't investigate.

 Apparently long time sellers are due no recourse or respect by ebay employees.

You are correct. There is no way eBay is going to spend the time and money required to investigate a parts-swapping accusation.

eBay has no way to know what you shipped, what the buyer received, what the buyer returned, or what you received as a return.  All they have is the buyers' and sellers' words. 

If eBay rules in favor of buyers, then sellers get screwed because sellers have to pay for the Money Back Guarantee. 

If eBay rules in favor of sellers, then buyers get screwed and eBay has to pay for the Money Back Guarantee. 

Guess which one they pick. 

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I do believe, therein lies a problem for many sellers - Other than ebay's capricious decision, based upon a biased assumption of 'what is best' for them, how does ebay justify being judge, jury and executioner, with NO evidence upon which to base their decision?

Why is anyone even allowed to offer such a return program on a commercial platform?

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Exactly. Ebay is no longer a place to just take out an ad and to drive traffic to those ads. It has now become a governing monstrosity that has inserted itself into every aspect of a transaction while removing as much of (what I think is one of the most important part of the transaction) the buyer and the seller`s communication and transaction individuality.

[rainbowcolorz]

@tunicaslot said:  Our biggest problem here is the lack of trust which gets mentioned way too often on these boards as there are millions of transactions going on daily and a very small % involve scammers let alone problems.

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I guess the millions of very happy and satisfied customers don't come to the message board to vent.  Most likely, the good buyers just leave glowing positive feedback for their sellers and that's the end of that.  

The lack of trust that you say gets mentioned way too often is most likely mentioned often because often there are people who are often scammed and they come here to post about it.  Often.   

[threshold.sales.group]

Fwiw, in almost any other area of business & life your track record is given major (if not primary) consideration. Apply for a job or mortgage or car loan or the resolution of any other sort of dispute it's just common sense that *where available* the parties histories play a major role in decision making process.  

[grayirongolf]

Hopefully this has taught you "How To Get Items Free" on eBay.    No need to buy anything on eBay when you can get it free.

 The reflection of eBay's share price show's just how well these policy's are working out. 

[secretsquirrelisnowhere]

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@this*old*attic wrote:

Did you formally report the buyer?

I had a buyer file a bogus INAD awhile back, and packaged the return so poorly she damaged the item.

The “Report Buyer” link allowed me to upload pics. Then I called EBay, and CS was able to look at my listing pics compared to pics of what I got back.

They released my money, although I think she got a courtesy refund (my case was less blatant than yours). 

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Actually you were the one getting the courtesy refund.  

[this*old*attic]

Really great info to help keep things in perspective!

[gramophone-georg]

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@second-chance-sa1es wrote:

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@gramophone-georg wrote:

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

I understand your position.  You have a great record to be sure, twenty years with no problems.  Congratulations on that!

Perhaps you might want to reconsider throwing all that away because of one issue?  One issue in twenty years?  This problem can happen anywhere you sell online; it is not confined to Ebay.

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Sure it CAN, but the odds seem really high here.

If you had a store in the mall, and you were chasing down a shoplifter but mall security tripped you, held the door open for the thief, and pointed him away from the cops... would you renew your lease or find a better mall?

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Its actually far less of a problem here than in other places. dont get me started on AZ. the ways in which a seller can be screwed is......astonishing. foremost 1 false report out of hundreds and hundreds CAN result in a ban for the seller who was falsely reported against. You are talking total and complete business shut down. A great example. Seller with over 60,000 successful sales and shipments on AZ gets a rash of 6 false reports, business shut down, months of appeals and laying off employees before resolved.

- Your customers package can get stolen from the front doorstep, you as the seller get screwed

- Your customer seals your package from the doorstep, you as the seller get screwed

- Your AZ sorters at the warehouse are being lazy, pressed for time, or needing to improperly shove a few hundred packages into a smaller number of flex routes and your items end up on a route where they were never scanned and your Flex driver decides to be shady. Package vanishes and no one can prove it one way or the other and you as the seller get screwed.

-Your customer makes a sizing mistake or a remorse buy and lies and says item was not as described (all AZ customers know they can skirt responsibility for return shipping by doing this) and you as the seller get screwed

that doesnt even begin to get into issues like the wall that is so high around every single category restriction within that platform. As a paying customer you have to request permission to sell in each category and they want a retina scan, a blood sample and your first born child before they will ALLOW you to sell a screwdriver (Im not kidding)

it sucks when we get screwed here and trust me, Ive swallowed that pill twice in the very very recent past. But its nowhere near as bad as other places.

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Yeah, but I don't know how much credence I'm willing to give the "but everybody else does it too" defense. Fact of the matter is eBay tell you one thing, then does another in a lot of these instances rather than just being upfront about what the policies really are and how they'll be applied.

Why should I pay someone money to help thieves steal from me?

[this*old*attic]

True, but I was whole either way because I used Ebay’s very own tools at my disposal and was well informed regarding the words, direction, etc. to use in targeting my efforts to remain whole.

I got my Credit Union to eat almost $600 from 3 unauthorized monthly debit payments last month when they couldn’t manage to block the card,  using the same approach as above (carefully targeted).

I don’t think the system is perfect. I think EBay is training buyers to purchase carelessly and approach transactions with a department store mentality rather than as a contract (a philosophy upon which the old EBay was founded).

I get it. I was a SERIOUS (-ly addicted) power buyer in the old days, got stuck with loads of difference of opinion mis-described or purposely misrepresented junk, and had my fair share of disappointments when sellers didn’t like the closing price.

These changes we hate had to happen to protect buyer confidence, the problem is that EBay overcorrected.

Hopefully, it might equalize out some day. Pendulums DO stop swinging at some point.

In the meantime, it doesn’t do anyone seeking knowledge or help on the boards to spew hatred at EBay and make extreme blanket statements that are rarely true.

1. There ARE protections, buzzwords, business practices/approaches that can protect sellers. Use them.

2. Keep frustrations in perspective. The post up above about AZ policies is a good example. EBay is still a GREAT pasture, and under many circumstances still the greenest.

3. Don’t forget that loss IS an inherent part of doing business. There’s no way to 100% insure against it... so make sure you are knowledgeable and have #1 in place.