eBay

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

OK, so I am using what could be considered an inflammatory style in the title, but am looking for rational discussion as I am pointing out issues and places where there could be improvement. There is no "quick fix" solution - just things buyers should do or do better. So offering this up as insight, from a buyer's perspective. So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right." Sigh. But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer.

Recently, I needed to replace an item that I use frequently. So being an ebay seller too, I came here looking to buy. I had in my mind an amount I was willing to pay and searched out recent sales and confirmed I was in the right ball park. Adjusted my amount a bit.

So I entered my search criteria and ebay's algorithm returned 53 items. On closer inspection 19 items (36%! ) were irrelevant. (....and some say there is "throttling?" ) The irrelevant items were items associated with what I wanted but not the exact item. (I used an exact name/info search) So down to 34 listing to consider.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated. So I looked at the remaining 17 closely. This is where the "fun" begins.

Now what follows is included should anyone wish to understand what a buyer "sees" and experiences.

So the fun is that HALF of the listings were grossly deficient! I am looking at used items and:

seller posts a stock photo of a new item?
sellers posted 1-2 pictures that are blurry and don't show the condition.
sellers have zero or scant description - perhaps relying on the LONG ebay included "catalog" information?
Listing unclear as to what essential items were included.
sellers failing to follow ebay policy of disclosing all flaws, etc.
Almost none reported on the history of the item

It sure appears as though the scant info provided would leave one WIDE opening to claims of NAD since descriptions are weak. Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter in a SNAD case, buyer always wins, but is this a reason to not show the condition or an adequate description? Is this what sellers have defaulted to under the ebay policy? Is this acceptable?

So I ended up sending out 7 emails requesting specific information, additional pictures, etc. I am happy to report that I got 3 replies and those were fast and responsive sellers. {Wish I could have rewarded each of those three with a sale. } But three others - nadda. One seller promised to provide pictures the next day and failed to follow through.

One of these "no reply" sellers had their listings sell for well less than I would have paid. I guess I should have done what most would do, buy cheap and file a SNAD if I was disappointed. But sigh, I have a conscience and just don't work like that.

Oh and there was one seller, with just 3 feedback, who listed scant info and a stock photo. (That in a category known to be trolled by scammer.) Sure looked like a potential scam case waiting to happen.

Then of course I had to go in and look at feedback scores of sellers. One with 95% FB most would have passed by, but it was a low volume seller with a Neg from ONE remorse buyer. Then there was the seller with 1,000s of FB & a rating under 98% and hundreds of Negs for INR & inappropriate behavior (pass).

So in the end, I saw an item that was in great shape but missing a few essential pictures. Got a FAST reply from the seller with extra info and pics. Had a few more email exchanges and ended up buying from a responsive and helpful seller! YEAH! They do exist!

OK, so someone is going to retort - "Hey, you got your item and paid what you want, what is there to complain about!" That is NOT the point of this post.

The point is that in doing what was needed to insure I avoided a "case" (doing the DD noted on these forums) I spent over 3-hours in the buying process! So part of the point is: what other buyer is going to spend that time and effort?

So it is pretty easy to see how disputes arise and how a casual buyer might easily get into trouble. Most of which appears to be avoidable by better listing practices, being responsive to buyers, etc.

Now this is generally my experience when I go looking for used items on ebay. It is time consuming and frustrating and I can see why it might turn off other buyers.

Maybe ebay could create a peer review panel of experts to coach sellers when these kinds of deficiencies occur? But less than stellar selling practices appear to be wide-spread.

I dunno - all fwiw!

OK, now flame away with the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sigh

bubbleman2010 · ‎10-23-2018

Buyers having problems getting their refunds thats a ebay problem not a sellers problem. Its as simple as getting candy on Halloween file a SNAD pick a problem and bingo bango bongo you've got your money back...

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

To clarify, I don't dispute what the OP said regarding 50% as that percentage, and higher, has been mentioned in posts by others who experienced these things~and these were people who bought a lot~although many no longer buy here or have cut their buying down considerably due to these experiences.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

@bubbleman2010 wrote:
Buyers having problems getting their refunds thats a ebay problem not a sellers problem. Its as simple as getting candy on Halloween file a SNAD pick a problem and bingo bango bongo you've got your money back...

When Ebay has to step in to make things right, they are not the problem. They are the solution, and not all SNADs are false SNADs, as you know.

terrycanarsky · ‎10-23-2018

To clarify - as a seller and as a buyer, I do not agree with a seller putting up shoddy listings. Heck, I have a job in part because former co-workers thought it was fine to do a half-buns job - and the boss finally called me in to figure out why he wasn't prospering as the business should've. Nearly three years later, I'm still working on untangling the mess left by careless, lazy people.

And neither do I agree that a buyer should simply rely on the MBG as a 'get out of payment' card. A legitimate problem? Contact us, we'll discuss how we can mutually fix it even if it's a return and refund. But we have had *several* people misuse the system because they've changed their mind, found it cheaper elsewhere, kept our new part and returned their old broken one, etc. With 'refund no matter what', we are simply out of pocket regardless of the buyer's behaviour. There is no recourse, not even a restocking fee. Instead we are penalized for the mere opening of a case, even if it is easily proven to be fraudulent.

There is no magic bullet. A seller can only act with integrity and hope like crazy he/she has a super buyer with a great transaction. There are those few 'bad' apples because, well, we're humans and humans can be nasty gits sometimes.

Clean up the venue's act, and the rest will fall into place.

~M

bubbleman2010 · ‎10-23-2018

The last four SNAD I've had have all been false. I don't know about the rest of the folks here..

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

So sorry about that. All my SNADs as a buyer were legitimate.

creekcoyote · ‎10-23-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@jason_incognito wrote:
I can tell you that it used to be that buying glass I'd get 60% or 70% boxes filled with peanuts. Now it might be 10%......
And that 10% may not be adequate.

I used to pack with a lot of peanuts until the complaints were vocalized that buyers don't want peanuts. They don't want to have to deal with the mess. It is rather a catch 22. If you use peanuts you are villified. If you don't use peanuts, you are a poor packer.

COYOTES RULE!!!

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

@creekcoyote wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@jason_incognito wrote:
I can tell you that it used to be that buying glass I'd get 60% or 70% boxes filled with peanuts. Now it might be 10%......
And that 10% may not be adequate.
I used to pack with a lot of peanuts until the complaints were vocalized that buyers don't want peanuts. They don't want to have to deal with the mess. It is rather a catch 22. If you use peanuts you are villified. If you don't use peanuts, you are a poor packer.

Sometimes you just can't win, it seems. I remember someone got negged because the peanuts weren't all one color.

I had a really creatively packed item once. While the seller used peanuts, she placed them in plastic bags. No muss, no fuss. On the other hand, once a seller just threw a large doll in a box with no protection except peanuts. It took me hours to painstakingly pick all those peanuts that had become twisted in the doll's long hair out.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

My suggestion: ebay really needs to do is embrace the idea of being a flea market/garage sale. This means, stop punishing people for selling used items and stop pushing things like guaranteed delivery and free returns- things that give large full time ebayers/companies an advantage over small sellers.

That would surely reduce sales greatly, if there is no recourse for inadequate listings. There is no reason that used items cannot be sold successfully here, and many do just that, as they have accurate listings. There was a recent post by someone who has sold here for twenty years~used~with no problems because they describe thoroughly and well. If there is an issue, they state it.

That may work for a flea market where the buyer can see exactly what they are buying, but not online where complete disclosure of condition may not be happening and the buyer doesn't even know it. The MBG helps buyers buy those no returns listings that may never be bought without that.

totoro470 · ‎10-23-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
My suggestion: ebay really needs to do is embrace the idea of being a flea market/garage sale. This means, stop punishing people for selling used items and stop pushing things like guaranteed delivery and free returns- things that give large full time ebayers/companies an advantage over small sellers.

That would surely reduce sales greatly, if there is no recourse for inadequate listings. There is no reason that used items cannot be sold successfully here, and many do just that, as they have accurate listings. There was a recent post by someone who has sold here for twenty years~used~with no problems because they describe thoroughly and well. If there is an issue, they state it.

That may work for a flea market where the buyer can see exactly what they are buying, but not online where complete disclosure of condition may not be happening and the buyer doesn't even know it. The MBG helps buyers buy those no returns listings that may never be bought without that.

Yeah, you can still sell used items here but can you really argue that it isn't gradually becoming harder? You could blame buyer's expectations but, just from ebay's standpoint, they are constantly adding requirements that make it more difficult- like free returns, algorithms based on views, promoted listings, and guaranteed delivery. You could even say that ebay is responsible for giving buyers such high expectations. I mean, if a flea market started offering all these amazing services, wouldn't people come to expect them eventually?

Ebay isn't stopping anyone from selling used items, the question is- are they encouraging it or discouraging it based on their policies? You can describe everything in every minute detail and provide tons of photos but remember that I'm also making less money than I did a few years for generally the same items. If anything, this means I need to put less time and effort into my listing, at what point is it going to become more of a hassle than it's worth? Shipping has gone up, fees have gone up, and now buyers expect more from me (thanks to ebay). So yeah, things are getting worse from my perspective and ebay seems to care more about putting ads or suggesting Chinese sellers on my listings.

-Many changes are based on a series of several small changes rather than a few large changes. A prime example is ebay's yellow color at the beginning. When ebay introduced a white background everyone got upset and they switched it back to yellow. ebay then slowly transitioned that yellow to white- over a long enough period of time people didn't notice. Ebay won't become exactly mlike Amazon, there is no question though that it is becoming more similar to Amazon- especially when it comes to things like shipping and returns. Honestly, ebay seems to have only been making harmful changes ever since I started listing here, things only seem to get less profitable over time. So yeah, I think it's a bit much to expect sellers to do more work for less profit.

missjen831 · ‎10-23-2018

@creekcoyote wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@jason_incognito wrote:
I can tell you that it used to be that buying glass I'd get 60% or 70% boxes filled with peanuts. Now it might be 10%......
And that 10% may not be adequate.
I used to pack with a lot of peanuts until the complaints were vocalized that buyers don't want peanuts. They don't want to have to deal with the mess. It is rather a catch 22. If you use peanuts you are villified. If you don't use peanuts, you are a poor packer.

Amen. And you can add in there that you also get villified if you try NOT to be a poor packer & you use the wrong kind of packing peanuts. So.....you just can't win. I'm sticking to clothing & stationary/planners so that all i need is zip block bags and padded mailers.

One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**

creekcoyote · ‎10-23-2018

@missjen831 wrote:
@lunalapin1912 wrote:
Poor listings can be a treasure. I once saw a listing for what seemed to be two cat plates. It was $9.99 with $12.99 shipping. A bit pricy for two plates that were probably very small. I really really loved the plates so I bid and won it. Next week, two large heavy boxes arrived. Each box contained 12 different plates. The seller was selling two complete series of plates from Franklin Mint, but hadn't put it in the listing. They put nothing in the listing. So, I have a huge collection of beautiful cat plates which cost me less than the shipping. (It was over $50 to ship the two boxes)
Agreed. I’ve found some highly coveted vintage Sanrio pieces & won the auctions for a low price because the listings sucked and the pictures were dark and blurry. One of them, I found by using a simple search term. It was a lot of 3 and you would have never known that one of them was highly coveted unless you looked at all the pictures. The seller focused on the larger widget. I didn’t notice the one I wanted until I enlarged the pictures. I couldn’t tell the condition of it either but took my chances and it paid off.

Remember when a major slogan and recruitment ad for E-bay was 'anyone can sell and anyone can sell from anywhere.'

Sellers weren't expected to be 'professional' sellers and were certainly not expected to have professional looking photos and descriptions. Photos weren't even required as a part of the description. This was back in the days of auctions and auctions only. Searching was easy and there wasn't any 'best match.' Some descriptions were long and convoluted and told you everything about the item plus the seller's life. Some descriptions and pictures were 'dark and blurry' and were a boon for buyers. Buyers could actually find hidden bargains. Items that were not always in the proper category.

I liked shopping here. It was fun to find those bargains. Doesn't happen anymore.

COYOTES RULE!!!

goldguy22k · ‎10-23-2018

@totoro470 wrote:
Lazy sellers are annoying but you have to think of it from the seller's perspective- is it worth the time to provide a perfect listing? For me personally, I consider my time too valuable to even list items under $8 each unless I have many of them. As the price goes up from there I take more care in my photos and wording in the description. Ebay is a job for a lot of sellers and there's just not enough incentive for you to put a lot of work in most listings. Often times putting more time into something is pointless because the prices are so competitive that you can't increase the price to compensate. Having better photos may give you a slight edge, but take it from me that it's often times easier to just lower your price a little lower than the lowest than to spend an extra 20 minutes taking photos. The funny thing is that when I first started listing a few years ago I actually cared about everything I listed but as time has progressed I've increasingly become more disillusioned with the entire thing. Ebay rates go up, their requirements go up, all while my discount for providing a quality service has been cut in half for no reason. What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees? On top of that, the amount of favoritism towards developing countries has become more evident with time. I'm personally not quite a slob yet but I can see how others get there after being here long enough.

My point is, every year things get worse for many regular sellers and sometimes that is reflected in the service they provide. We have to provide more product to keep up with the loss in income due to foreign competition and increasing rates/returns. You have to understand that having less time per listing will inevitably lead to low quality over time. I believe if ebay gave more of an incentive and stopped trying to be Amazon the entire site would be a great place to shop. Unfortunately, as time progresses, the site becomes more of a dirt mall than anything.

Hmmm, not being confrontational, but you started off saying it wasn't worth the effort to list items under a certain price level. I agree, But the highlighted text has me scratching my head.

If it takes too much time (i.e. you place a value on your time) to list properly, then that shouldn't be the answer - don't list?

yuzuha · ‎10-23-2018

@goldguy22k wrote:
@totoro470 wrote:
Lazy sellers are annoying but you have to think of it from the seller's perspective- is it worth the time to provide a perfect listing? For me personally, I consider my time too valuable to even list items under $8 each unless I have many of them. As the price goes up from there I take more care in my photos and wording in the description. Ebay is a job for a lot of sellers and there's just not enough incentive for you to put a lot of work in most listings. Often times putting more time into something is pointless because the prices are so competitive that you can't increase the price to compensate. Having better photos may give you a slight edge, but take it from me that it's often times easier to just lower your price a little lower than the lowest than to spend an extra 20 minutes taking photos. The funny thing is that when I first started listing a few years ago I actually cared about everything I listed but as time has progressed I've increasingly become more disillusioned with the entire thing. Ebay rates go up, their requirements go up, all while my discount for providing a quality service has been cut in half for no reason. What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees? On top of that, the amount of favoritism towards developing countries has become more evident with time. I'm personally not quite a slob yet but I can see how others get there after being here long enough.

My point is, every year things get worse for many regular sellers and sometimes that is reflected in the service they provide. We have to provide more product to keep up with the loss in income due to foreign competition and increasing rates/returns. You have to understand that having less time per listing will inevitably lead to low quality over time. I believe if ebay gave more of an incentive and stopped trying to be Amazon the entire site would be a great place to shop. Unfortunately, as time progresses, the site becomes more of a dirt mall than anything.

Hmmm, not being confrontational, but you started off saying it wasn't worth the effort to list items under a certain price level. I agree, But the highlighted text has me scratching my head.

If it takes too much time (i.e. you place a value on your time) to list properly, then that shouldn't be the answer - don't list?

Yeah, I'm baffled by this. If it's not worth the time and effort for the amount you're going to get, why are you even bothering at all? Just donate it.

(Also, who spends 20+ minutes taking photos and why on earth WOULD you? I can easily get 12 good-quality photos in under 5 minutes.)

goldguy22k · ‎10-23-2018

@jason_incognito wrote:
I can tell you that when it is "free" shipping, that seller will do everything possible to lower the shipping costs.... Fed Ex smart post? sure! When I pay for it? Priority shipping offers free boxes!

Free Priority boxes are nice. But I never feel like they are adequate on their own to protect what I am shipping from dropping off conveyors or having a heavier package dropped on them. So those "free" boxes cost me extra to double layer them, with the grain going in a perpendicular direction, to make sure I have decent rigidity.