SELLERS - Part of The Problem with Ebay?

[goldguy22k]

OK, so I am using what could be considered an inflammatory style in the title, but  am looking for rational discussion as I am pointing out issues and places where there could be improvement.  There is no "quick fix" solution - just things buyers should do or do better.   So offering this up as insight, from a buyer's perspective.   So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right."  Sigh.  But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer. 

Recently, I needed to replace an item that I use frequently.  So being an ebay seller too, I came here looking to buy.  I had in my mind an amount I was willing to pay and searched out recent sales and confirmed I was in the right ball park. Adjusted my amount a bit.

So I entered my search criteria and ebay's algorithm returned 53 items.  On closer inspection 19 items (36%! )  were irrelevant. (....and some say there is "throttling?" )    The irrelevant items were items associated with what I wanted but not the exact item.  (I used an exact name/info search)  So down to 34 listing to consider.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated.  So I looked at the remaining 17 closely.  This is where the "fun" begins. 

Now what follows is included should anyone wish to understand what a buyer "sees" and experiences.  

So the fun is that HALF of the listings were grossly deficient!  I am looking at used items and:

• seller posts a stock photo of a new item?
• sellers posted 1-2 pictures that are blurry and don't show the condition.
• sellers have zero or scant description - perhaps relying on the LONG ebay included "catalog" information?
• Listing unclear as to what essential items were included.
• sellers failing to follow ebay policy of disclosing all flaws, etc.
• Almost none reported on the history of the item

It sure appears as though the scant info provided would leave one WIDE opening to claims of NAD since descriptions are weak.  Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter in a SNAD case, buyer always wins, but is this a reason to not show the condition or an adequate description?  Is this what sellers have defaulted to under the ebay policy?  Is this acceptable?

So I ended up sending out 7 emails requesting specific information, additional pictures, etc.  I am happy to report that I got 3 replies and those were fast and responsive sellers.  {Wish I could have rewarded each of those three with a sale. } But three others - nadda. One seller promised to provide pictures the next day and failed to follow through.

One of these "no reply" sellers had their listings sell for well less than I would have paid.  I guess I should have done what most would do, buy cheap and file a SNAD if I was disappointed.  But sigh, I have a conscience and just don't work like that.

Oh and there was one seller, with just 3 feedback, who listed scant info and a stock photo.   (That in a category known to be trolled by scammer.)   Sure looked like a potential scam case waiting to happen.

Then of course I had to go in and look at feedback scores of sellers. One with 95% FB most would have passed by, but it was a low volume seller with a Neg from ONE remorse buyer.  Then there was the seller with 1,000s of FB & a rating under 98% and hundreds of Negs for INR & inappropriate behavior (pass).

So in the end, I saw an item that was in great shape but missing a few essential pictures.  Got a FAST reply from the seller with extra info and pics.  Had a few more email exchanges and ended up buying from a responsive and helpful seller!  YEAH!  They do exist! 

OK, so someone is going to retort - "Hey, you got your item and paid what you want, what is there to complain about!"  That is NOT the point of this post.

The point is that in doing what was needed to insure I avoided a "case" (doing the DD noted on these forums)  I spent over 3-hours in the buying process!  So part of the point is: what other buyer is going to spend that time and effort?  

So it is pretty easy to see how disputes arise and how a casual buyer might easily get into trouble.  Most of which appears to be avoidable by better listing practices, being responsive to buyers, etc.

Now this is generally my experience when I go looking for used items on ebay.  It is time consuming and frustrating and I can see why it might turn off other buyers.

Maybe ebay could create a peer review panel of experts to coach sellers when these kinds of deficiencies occur?  But less than stellar selling practices appear to be wide-spread.

I dunno - all fwiw!  

OK, now flame away with the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.  Sigh

[goldguy22k]

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@tunicaslot wrote:

dog - sorry to disagree with you - but the sellers we need to educate - don't often come here and you know that. The few that do are seldom interested in taking any critiques or advice from the members here to improve their listings so that buyers can buy with confidence.

As far as the agenda - it's on many threads - and it often deviates from the original thread concern. Many of us have noticed it and have been concerned about it. Certain people continue to insert how many sellers are scammers into their responses. While that is true - again - you are not talking about the majority of se4llers and it's not 50/50.

I've made mistakes and taken responsibility for them. I'm sure my buyers were disappointed also and I offer discounts and apology profusely. A mistake I make weighs heavily on me as I try to provide buyers with excellent customer service - but we are all human. And just because I disappointed someone - does not mean I continue to disappoint every other buyer that comes along. I am sensitive to the fact that some people are giving sellers a bad name here - just as some sellers call buyers scammers for mistakes that are sometime just that - honest mistakes. We all were newbies at some point.

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OH my!  I think we are on opposite ends of a philosophical spectrum?

The point of this thread was to demonstrate one person's recent experience and look for solutions.  Can we get away from the point-counter point stuff and talk about how this problem could be fixed?  Yeah, I doubt a message board is the answer, but ebay with its clout could do something.  There is a BIG problem here!

I am the dude who keeps inserting 50/50 into the thread here!  That isn't some pie-in-the-sky, but actual numbers from the experience I recently had.  I noted that 50% of the listing were DEFICIENT!  I did not in anyway imply that meant those sellers were scammers.  I have no way to tell that and would not make that assumption, so please do not put words in my mouth!  You offended me with that!

While you are correct, 50% isn't a MAJORITY  it is a pretty high number! But that misses the point!   What is an acceptable number of sellers who have deficient listings 40%, 30%, 20%?

But nice to see that when you are human and make mistakes you take responsibility. That speaks highly of your character.  I hope you are not taking this discussion personally or stepping in to defend all sellers.  Look, many of the comments here are from other sellers like us that see the same things.  

But with so much evidence on the threads about bad buying experiences, would you say there is a need to "help" those that are learning?  My old German teacher use to say: Exonerate the strong & encourage the mediocre!  I do the former when I find it (as mentioned about) but am really interested in the later.

Instead of arguing over what percentage of deficient listings, why don't we concentrate on what are the solutions to get an improvement in listings and the seller pool?  Can you help with that?

[ersatz_sobriquet]

I didn't read the 4 pages of responses here, just the opening thread, too busy of a life. 

But...seems to me that ebay has become a site where buyers show up at the local cheap diner and want the valet parking for free and all the experiences of fine dining. 

Frankly in this life you get what you pay for. Sellers with low profit margins are not going to bust their behind for you. Who would? This is not charity selling for buyers glee. We are here to make a profit, otherwise there is no point, and time is money. If you want something perfect, then buy something NEW. 

I have begun ignoring the multi questions on low profit items, it's not worth my time, sometimes even blocking those buyers. No...you are not going to get champagne on a beer budget. 

[creekcoyote]

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@goldguy22k wrote:

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@creekcoyote wrote:

They are not allowed to be human and make mistakes that are common in the rest of the retail world.      So what happens?

Many of the decent sellers leave or no longer sell much on here.  Nor do they buy much anymore.   Yes, there are scamming sellers but the good and decent sellers far outweight the bad even under the conditions that they are expected to sell under.

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You have some good points there and I'd like to comment further.

First the last part - as far a decent sellers outweighing the bad.  I think what I demonstrated with the numbers in my post was that HALF of the sellers had deficient listing and only about HALF of those who had inquires sent to them bothered to reply to those inquiries.  Now I have not done that extensive of a study on other buys I have made, but generally those numbers appear to ring true, in my experience (fwiw).

So from this chair or view point I'd respectively disagree that good sellers far outweigh bad sellers.  It seems like it is nearly 50-50 these days and thus a larger problem.

So how do we "coach up" the humans around here that wear the tag seller, when the act, er, well, "human?"

I think the discussion could turn to "how to" turn that tide?  How do we get more sellers that are struggling to grow and improve?

One thing I think ebay could do, especially in "problem categories" is provide and "example listing" with explanations, that others could use to gage their performance against.  Think of that - the capable sellers will hit the mark every time and those that are struggling might not hit a home run, but improve to a triple or a double!  

So why wouldn't improving the quality, over all of listing be a better move and a better investment than turning this site into a Sears & Roebuck Catalog?

I dunno, I'm just saying.

I have been here since 2001 and have rarely had a bad buying experience.  Almost 95% of the sellers that I have dealt with have been great.   There have been some issues but almost all have been handled just as well as if it was an issue with a B&M store.  I honestly cannot believe your 50% bad-50% good sellers.

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[missjen831]

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@tunicaslot wrote:

The agenda lately has been that many sellers here are scammers. While I agree there are some - we only hear about negative experiences here - not positive ones. I've had negligant sellers - but the bulk of my purchases here go off without a hitch - fast shipping, item as described and pleasant communication. Just because we see more threads about a bad purchase - does not mean there are any more now than we've had in the past - they are just being talked about now as are many other topics in society that never were in the limelight.

These threads need to be on the buying board - not the selling board as it negates the purpose of helping sellers with problems sellers run into. The sellers that are responsibile for these these - do not come here - and these rants do nothing but lower the moral of good honest sellers here. 

Life isn't perfect - you run into situations occasionally that are frustrating. You don't use other venues - so have no insight on the problems that exist there. You only hear about the dissatisfaction on this platform. I've stepped back from posting here due to all the seller bashing and the single minded agendas of some. I've been researching more about the other platforms - talking to sellers nd buyers on those and they have the same gripes. Those with better seller protection often deter buyers from purchasing there because when they do run into a problem - the platforms favoring sellers - turn a deaf ear to the buyers - even in legitimate SNADs. Buyers have the MBG here - they don't on many other venues. 

If buyers are receiving too many SNADs here - then maybe they better weigh their options more carefully. Ebay is not the only game in town - but for me it's the best one.

No one is dismissing anything - we have all agreed that there are bad sellers here as well as bad buyers. You often state people don't see what you say and I'll throw that back at you - because you don't see that most of us concur that both bad buyers and bad sellers exist. We don't have to be told continually that this is happening - we see it, hear it and experience it - but..... the % of good experiences here far outweigh the bad for most. If yours don't then that's a situation you have to figure out for yourself on why it's happening  - people are ditching their collectibles - they have little knowledge on what a true collector wants or expects. If they don't have sufficient descriptions or don't answer questions - there is a back button - there is no reason to purchase and hope for the best. Some people make their own problems.

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I agree with you. People are more like to complain than to praise so...naturally there are more complaints here. If people want to discuss bad purchases, there is a bidding and buying board. Seems to me some just want to complain and I say—-if you can’t take it, don’t dish it. Don’t complain about sellers on the selling board and not expect to get it right back. 

[creekcoyote]

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Many good sellers have left, but I can't say that problematic sellers are all new.

Some are TRS sellers with many transactions.  Others may not be TRS but still have many transactions.  You can't tell what you may be getting into as the feedback has been scrubbed.  Having had honest negs removed, that did not violate any feedback policies, I know this to be true, and others have posted that they no longer trust 100% feedback sellers, knowing that this may be the case.

Many buyers don't bother to ask questions any longer, they just hit the back button.  

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Too me, as both a buyer and seller, the TOP RATED SELLER tag means zilch, zero, nada, nothing.    I have been offered a chance several times to 'get' this tag on my listings and I have refused the offer.     The requirements for being one of E-bay's TRS is how you follow the policies.  Not necessarily how satisfied your customers are with the item or your pictures, etc.

[terrycanarsky]

"I think ebay would be a far better place if sellers were held to a higher standard. "

It would be better if buyers were also held to a higher standard, but they are not.

It would be best if eBay held itself to a higher standard, but it does not.  Instead, it pawns most of the responsibility for poor experiences off on the seller who, generally speaking, has no recourse to correct the problem.  Instead, it creates more and more "rules" for the seller regardless of need or concerns.  Instead, it rewards less-than-honest buyers with unquestioned refunds for fraudulent returns while creating a metrics system which punishes a seller regardless of the reality of a situation.  Instead, it releases fundamentally faulty software "updates" which create more issues than not.

There will always be less-than-good sellers and less-than-good buyers.  But if the root of the problem - eBay and its uneven enforcement of seemingly senseless and sometimes needlessly punitive policies - is not addressed, there will never be a solution.

~M

[jason_incognito]

A couple things all to many people don't realize.

1) often the seller got a good deal on something because it was damaged. Someone goes to the store and buys a circular saw. They get it home and there is a part missing. They take it back to the store and the store marks it down and sells it "as is" The person buys it and lists it on eBay, without mentioning the missing part because they know absolutely nothing about saws....

2)My all time favorite. Outlet malls. TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Burlington, etc.... Often they sell factory seconds and the people buy these seconds, then list them on eBay as new. Lenox china marks all their seconds and I cannot tell you how often people list that stuff as new,  I can see the mark right there on the back that says it is a second . Lenox sells seconds for 50% off and many buyers, definately most collectors know the mark for 2nds.... But things like Ralph Lauren, etc. If you bought it at one of those stores, if you paid a steep discount, you got a factory second. Don't be surprised when your buyer emails you that the hem is crooked, and don't scream about how it is new with tags. We all know you cut off the TJMaxx tag.......

Then there is vintage, collectibles, etc where condition is a huge deal, but so many think it doesn't matter. They watched an episode of Antiques Roadshow that had the same item and they said it was $3,000 so theirs must be too, but 1 chip can take that $3000 vase to a $250 vase......

People are just sick of uneducated sellers. It's that simple.

[jason_incognito]

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@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:

I didn't read the 4 pages of responses here, just the opening thread, too busy of a life. 

But...seems to me that ebay has become a site where buyers show up at the local cheap diner and want the valet parking for free and all the experiences of fine dining. 

Frankly in this life you get what you pay for. Sellers with low profit margins are not going to bust their behind for you. Who would? This is not charity selling for buyers glee. We are here to make a profit, otherwise there is no point, and time is money. If you want something perfect, then buy something NEW. 

I have begun ignoring the multi questions on low profit items, it's not worth my time, sometimes even blocking those buyers. No...you are not going to get champagne on a beer budget. 

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Maybe that's why you have a store on ebay instead of your own website. Personally, if I got a bunch of questions, I'd ask why and try and answer questions before they get asked.

I work in an office. The equipment breaks down. I email the office manager. 

I could email..... "the copier isn't working" and get a response asking me questions or I could email...... "the copier is not working. All the lights are on, there is paper in the tray and the ink cartridge shows ink available. It is diplaying error code 134"

[totoro470]

Lazy sellers are annoying but you have to think of it from the seller's perspective- is it worth the time to provide a perfect listing? For me personally, I consider my time too valuable to even list items under $8 each unless I have many of them. As the price goes up from there I take more care in my photos and wording in the description. Ebay is a job for a lot of sellers and there's just not enough incentive for you to put a lot of work in most listings. Often times putting more time into something is pointless because the prices are so competitive that you can't increase the price to compensate. Having better photos may give you a slight edge, but take it from me that it's often times easier to just lower your price a little lower than the lowest than to spend an extra 20 minutes taking photos. The funny thing is that when I first started listing a few years ago I actually cared about everything I listed but as time has progressed I've increasingly become more disillusioned with the entire thing. Ebay rates go up, their requirements go up, all while my discount for providing a quality service has been cut in half for no reason. What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees? On top of that, the amount of favoritism towards developing countries has become more evident with time. I'm personally not quite a slob yet but I can see how others get there after being here long enough.

My point is, every year things get worse for many regular sellers and sometimes that is reflected in the service they provide. We have to provide more product to keep up with the loss in income due to foreign competition and increasing rates/returns. You have to understand that having less time per listing will inevitably lead to low quality over time. I believe if ebay gave more of an incentive and stopped trying to be Amazon the entire site would be a great place to shop. Unfortunately, as time progresses, the site becomes more of a dirt mall than anything.

[jason_incognito]

and ebay will cull the sellers that just don't care.

The sellers that list and relist and relist and relist.

The sellers that can't be bothered to take pictures.

It will give them more time to come here and discuss how eBay is throttling them.

[goldguy22k]

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@creekcoyote wrote:

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@goldguy22k wrote:

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@creekcoyote wrote:

They are not allowed to be human and make mistakes that are common in the rest of the retail world.      So what happens?

Many of the decent sellers leave or no longer sell much on here.  Nor do they buy much anymore.   Yes, there are scamming sellers but the good and decent sellers far outweight the bad even under the conditions that they are expected to sell under.

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You have some good points there and I'd like to comment further.

First the last part - as far a decent sellers outweighing the bad.  I think what I demonstrated with the numbers in my post was that HALF of the sellers had deficient listing and only about HALF of those who had inquires sent to them bothered to reply to those inquiries.  Now I have not done that extensive of a study on other buys I have made, but generally those numbers appear to ring true, in my experience (fwiw).

So from this chair or view point I'd respectively disagree that good sellers far outweigh bad sellers.  It seems like it is nearly 50-50 these days and thus a larger problem.

So how do we "coach up" the humans around here that wear the tag seller, when the act, er, well, "human?"

I think the discussion could turn to "how to" turn that tide?  How do we get more sellers that are struggling to grow and improve?

One thing I think ebay could do, especially in "problem categories" is provide and "example listing" with explanations, that others could use to gage their performance against.  Think of that - the capable sellers will hit the mark every time and those that are struggling might not hit a home run, but improve to a triple or a double!  

So why wouldn't improving the quality, over all of listing be a better move and a better investment than turning this site into a Sears & Roebuck Catalog?

I dunno, I'm just saying.

I have been here since 2001 and have rarely had a bad buying experience.  Almost 95% of the sellers that I have dealt with have been great.   There have been some issues but almost all have been handled just as well as if it was an issue with a B&M store.  I honestly cannot believe your 50% bad-50% good sellers.

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er, um, ah, perhaps a better choice of words?  Or are you intentionally questioning my veracity?

I have rarely had a bad buying experience, either because I do extensive due diligence.  But that DD takes an inordant amount of time & effort, more so than I am sure most buyers would engage.  But why does it have to be that way?  What number of "deficient listings" is acceptable?

Look, the premise of the 50% "bad" was deficient listings!  Please do not trandlate that into anyone saying 50% "bad sellers!"  In my original post I showed a list of the "issues" I found when searching out a particular product.  That experience showed that indeed 50% of the listings were deficient!

Is it accpetable for a seller to list a used item with one stock photo and no descriptive text?  {Oh and then that seller is asked to provide additional photos, promises to do that later in the day and then fails to follow through?}  How about using only 2-3 blurry pictures where it is impossible to determine condition - acceptable?  How about leaving out details about what is normally included - accepatable?  How about no description or scant information on a used item - acceptable?

I mean, I'd love to post confirming details but tha would be public shaming and is not only prohibited, but not anything I'd wanna do.  We need to help & encourage sellers to improve listings, not bash them over the head!

But why must this thread degenerate in to quibbling about percentages or interpretations or defending one group or another.  Hope that just because one's experiences have been good that one is not denying that there are problems and that they are greater than is acceptable?

I'd like to see commenters here provide suggestions on how things could be fixed.  But then again maybe that goes against message boards in general where people just need to vent or defend a position when they feel they are attacked. sigh

btw- I like coyotes too! 

[auctionpet]

You had me, until you stated this.....

Almost none reported on the history of the item

 Most items posted here, sellers don't know the history of, if your referring to prior ownership. A seller isn't required to disclose where they purchased the item, nor would it necessarily help in selling the item. I'm not about to reveal the source of my items, if I'm the longtime original owner of an item I may state this,  if this is what you mean by history. If you mean how an item is actually relevant in history, a buyer looking for the item would likely already know this. I've seen listings where the seller gives a history lesson about the item, which they obviously stole from Wikipedia or another source, when all I want are the item facts/condition, which they tend to omit.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated.

Unless items are exactly identical, incuding condition. You shouldn't expect all prices to be identical. Often those that sold cheaply are from sellers who don't care about getting the true worth of the item or the item is in less than desirable condition or missing components. You also need to be sure your including shipping cost when evaluating prices. I price my items based on their worth/condition, I don't price them higher or lower because of another sellers sale price, I don't have time to review every single item that sold and evaluate their photos and description, if they even bothered to provide one. Granted, there are many sellers that dramatically overprice their items and way too many claiming their Rare or Hard to Find, which is quite comical when your see plenty of them listed!

No doubt, there are plenty of sellers whose quality of listings and photos bring down the overall appeal of wanting to buy here. Since this isn't a vetted site, with the doors open to anyone to sell, there's not much that can be done to change this, nor can I imagine ebay wants to, as they want as many sales as possible.

[missjen831]

There are a many threads on this board where we have discussed how things can be fixed. The problem here is that often these threads are hijacked and turned into a seller-bashing party. By the same people who bring up the same bad purchases and make the same broad generalizations and who never post anything positive about their experiences (by their own admission, not all of their experiences were bad, most admit the ratio of good to bad isn’t even close to 50/50). Why not talk about the good here? I don’t think bashing and negativity is the best way to educate and change things.

[terrycanarsky]

"I'd like to see commenters here provide suggestions on how things could be fixed. "

Several of us have mentioned very specific things which a seller might do better/well.  At the end of the day, with the policies eBay chooses to enact and enforce, ALL a seller can do take decent photos, write an accurate title - because I can tell you from personal experience with buyers' remarks that many simply do not read descriptions at all but rather rely on the title - and then pack carefully so an item is received in good condition. 

Unfortunately, eBay tends to throw needless obstacles in the way of a seller at every turn (it seems, especially lately), in its quest to woo buyers at any cost.

So what do YOU suggest beyond good photos, decent pricing, careful packing, and accuracy?  There will always be those who slap some sub-standard something online and cause issues - just as there will always be those who will claim breakage or other fault, return a box of rocks, and still receive a full refund, all due to eBay's one-size-fits-all-buyers policies.

~M

[goldguy22k]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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I agree with you. People are more like to complain than to praise so...naturally there are more complaints here. If people want to discuss bad purchases, there is a bidding and buying board. Seems to me some just want to complain and I say—-if you can’t take it, don’t dish it. Don’t complain about sellers on the selling board and not expect to get it right back. 

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Oh Jen, there you are!  Wondered what happened to you!

I always am pleased to see your additions to a thread as they are often insightful and spot on.

That said, I think the point was missed and I think one with your experience could provide an important view point.

I'm not here to whine and complain.  Rather point out an issue: MANY deficient listings, so many sellers need to up their game. {and from the replies it appears to be as wide spread as I perceive.}

So now that we have identified an issue, should we just sit around, take sides and degenerate into wetting each others shoes in defense of our individual positions?  Or would it makes sense to identify some solutions and push for some meaningful changes that would benefit all?

but then again.... I like herding cats!  lol