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Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

Ebay sent a email today stating

"Effective November 1, 2022, we will update how we define evidence of successful delivery for Authenticity Guarantee transactions in our eBay Money Back Guarantee program and Payment dispute seller protections.
  
You’re required to use a tracked shipping service showing the delivery status to the authenticator’s address in order to qualify for “Item not received” protection. Previously, we looked for evidence showing at least the city or zip code of the address, however now we will look for evidence of shipment to the full address."

 

As UPS, Fedex and USPS will only display city and zip code on their online tracking. How do we show the shipment is been delivered to the full address? As this will affect all Payment Dispute Seller Protections cases. 

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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022


@valueaddedresource wrote:

devon@ebay thank you for trying and this is not aimed at you, it's just incredibly frustrating that either no one at eBay thought through the details on this or someone at eBay has decided not to disclose those details well in advance and in writing so sellers can be prepared.


Hi devon@ebay, just checking in. Have you been able to stir up any better response to the questions yet? Thanks.

Message 46 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

This shouldnt be an issue if the seller buys postage for any shipping carrier through ebay.

Ebay automatically links the tracking number to the item and buyer, its filled in automatically.  Even if it was changed there would be a record of the initial tracking number associated with the item to be shipped.

If the seller buys shipping through the ebay site, and usps shows that assigned tracking number delivered to the appropriate zip code, its a legit delivery.

This doesnt mean usps cant screw up and do the delivery to a wrong address.  Or that it wasn't nabbed by a porch pirate or mailbox thief.

Message 47 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

Dear Devon

Unfortunately, that response was just a copy and paste of the email we received. We were looking for further clarification. Ebay as a company sets new policies for seller, but can not specify the exact details? Did the back office actually came up with the "full plan" before setting these new policies? What we wanna know is very simple. How do we prove the full address since carriers will not show it online? I don't want to assume. I want to know what exact documents we need to provide in order to be "protected" Thanks!

Message 48 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

double post

Message 49 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022


@rugerskick wrote:

This shouldnt be an issue if the seller buys postage for any shipping carrier through ebay.

Ebay automatically links the tracking number to the item and buyer, its filled in automatically.  Even if it was changed there would be a record of the initial tracking number associated with the item to be shipped.

If the seller buys shipping through the ebay site, and usps shows that assigned tracking number delivered to the appropriate zip code, its a legit delivery.

This doesnt mean usps cant screw up and do the delivery to a wrong address.  Or that it wasn't nabbed by a porch pirate or mailbox thief.


@rugerskick that's exactly the issue here - eBay has taken something that shouldn't be an issue and made it one by moving the goal posts and not providing adequate information for sellers to understand how to retain seller protection for authenticated items going forward. 

What you're describing is how it currently works - as long as tracking shows a delivery scan to the correct zip code, it's considered delivered and seller protection applies.

What the new policy for effective November 1st says is for authenticated items, sellers must have full address proof of delivery to the authenticator, to qualify for seller protection.

So from November 1st, if USPS delivers to the wrong address, or mail thieves steal the package after the delivery scan, or somehow the package goes "missing" at the authenticator after delivery, the seller will not be covered unless they can provide proof of the full address the package was sent to, not just the zip code.

Since none of the carriers any of us on this thread are aware of actually provide proof of the full address in any publicly viewable tracking lookup, we're left guessing how exactly sellers are supposed to comply so they can retain seller protection.

eBay says We also encourage you to save documentation from the carrier that shows the full address your orders were shipped to in the event of any disputes."

OK, but what specific documents will eBay accept as proof of the full address the orders were shipped to?

It really shouldn't be that difficult of a question. 😔

Message 50 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

On 10-08 I commented on an item not received post that I read somewhere that eBay was going to require full address because of scammers shipping a cheapie item to a random address in the buyer's zip code,,,,,,hadn't  heard it was only for sneakers.  Anyway I thought the solution was to make the label on eBay. eBay will know if it matches the shipping address or 

 

 I think they're requiring the  full address to force everyone to make eBay labels which puts more $ in eBay's pocket because they never cared about protecting the seller  before.

Message 51 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

My proof is the shipping label generated from Ebay and placed on the package, which I photograph.

Theres no other place the package can go, I use the exact address info Ebay provides me. Why am I going to use another address? I want the package to get to the buyer.

Legally its impossible to ask for proof like they are requiring when they already know no carrier in the usa can provide it.  Its setting up a condition that appears on the surface to be attainable and reasonable but in reality they know they are asking for, not a single seller will be able to meet their requirements of proof.  I don't believe it would survive a legal challenge if it has to come down to it.  Demanding a level of proof from someone, while already knowing they will never be able to satisfy that level of proof because its out of their control to get that proof, I don'tthink that holds up.  It really just becomes a legal way to bar doing something for that person, making it appear well, they simply decided not to provide us the info we requested, and if they would have, we would have been able to help them.  That's a false argument.  They've deliberately set a requirement they know 100% of sellers cannot meet, in order to reject helping them, while claiming the policy would allow help IF only the seller would give us the info we're asking for, knowing that level of info doesn't exist.

So no I don't think this would survive a legal challenge.

Message 52 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

You can get a full tracking printout from your local post office upon request that shows the exact delivery address. I have done this before when a scamming buyer claimed they sent my item back, but instead sent a pen to an appliance store nearby. The printout proved the return was not sent to me.

While the tracking numbers typically only show the city and zip, the printouts from USPS show every step in the shipping process. But you have to go to the post office to request them.

Message 53 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022


@gamersbaystore wrote:

You can get a full tracking printout from your local post office upon request that shows the exact delivery address. I have done this before when a scamming buyer claimed they sent my item back, but instead sent a pen to an appliance store nearby. The printout proved the return was not sent to me.

While the tracking numbers typically only show the city and zip, the printouts from USPS show every step in the shipping process. But you have to go to the post office to request them.


@gamersbaystore you're correct there are things you *can* do that will show the address - like I mentioned earlier in this thread, you can take a picture of the label on the box, print out a copy of your UPS or FedEx billing statement, or like you said go to the post office and request a print out.

But, playing devil's advocate here, any of those could be photoshopped or faked so...is that really proof?

The question here isn't what can we do, it's what will eBay accept?

If eBay is going to change a longstanding policy for seller protection and require proof of something, they can and should provide details of what they will accept as proof, in writing, on the appropriate policy and FAQ pages that cover this topic.

We've all had nightmare scenarios of trying to explain things to support or getting different answers from different people in support. This should not be something left up to individual reps to figure out or decide on a case by case basis.

Message 54 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022


@a_c_green wrote:

@valueaddedresource wrote:

devon@ebay thank you for trying and this is not aimed at you, it's just incredibly frustrating that either no one at eBay thought through the details on this or someone at eBay has decided not to disclose those details well in advance and in writing so sellers can be prepared.


Hi devon@ebay, just checking in. Have you been able to stir up any better response to the questions yet? Thanks.


@a_c_green I am still working with the Sneakers Team for updates to recent changes. I will still be sure to come back and share any information once I hear back.  

Devon,
eBay
Message 55 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022


devon@ebay wrote:

@maison*de*luxe wrote:

Hello Devon,

Can we get an answer for all categories this new policy applies? Not just for the Sneakers department....


Hey @maison*de*luxe @a_c_green @valueaddedresource and others. I have an update to share from the Sneaker Team in regards to the recent Seller News Announcements that went out last week and this is what they wanted to share:


"For reference: 9/26 sneakers SNA - “Updates to the sneakers experience on eBay”

Effective November 1, 2022, we will update how we define evidence of successful delivery for Authenticity Guarantee transactions in our eBay Money Back Guarantee program and Payment dispute seller protections

You’re required to use a tracked shipping service showing the delivery status to the authenticator’s address in order to qualify for “Item not received” protection. Previously, we looked for evidence showing at least the city or zip code of the address. Starting November 1, we’ll look for evidence of shipment to the authenticator’s full address. Once an item is marked as received by an authenticator, delivery of the item to the buyer becomes eBay’s responsibility, and if there are any delivery issues, we’ll work with the buyer to resolve them. 

We will continue to require signature confirmation for orders valued at $750 or more, and we strongly recommend shipping insurance for high value orders.  

We also encourage you to save documentation from the carrier that shows the full address your orders were shipped to in the event of any disputes. 

As always, thank you for selling on eBay.

The eBay Team"


"We also encourage you to save documentation from the carrier that shows the full address your orders were shipped to in the event of any disputes."

What system does this???

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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022


@donsdetour wrote:


"We also encourage you to save documentation from the carrier that shows the full address your orders were shipped to in the event of any disputes."

What system does this???


I would say that most carriers do. To be clear, we're talking here about a record of the address to which the order was supposed to go (i.e. the address on the label), not necessarily where it went (i.e. where it was actually delivered).

 

For example, ShipStation (via PayPal/Shipnow) will send you a confirmation email under the Subject of "Here's your shipping label!" That contains full data on the carrier, cost, tracking number and shipping address. "Click-N-Ship" label purchase notifications from USPS.com are similarly detailed.

 

eBay tried to do the same thing, but botched the attempt (at least a couple of years ago now) by using programmers in Europe and never reviewing their work before releasing it into Production here. Thus when you buy your on-line Shipping label through eBay, you get a confirmation email under the Subject of "Your eBay label is ready," containing an incomplete record of the buyer's address in which the ZIP code is in the wrong place and the State is missing altogether.

 

The eBay code producing the Shipping record email was written for European mailing addresses, where the Postal Code precedes the City name (e.g. "12345 Berlin"), and there is no State field at all. Your American buyer's Ship-To address comes out looking like this as a result:

 

Homer J. Simpson 

742 Evergreen Terrace

 

12345-6789 Springfield

United States

 

(The gap between the street address and the ZIP/City line is apparently due to the code failing to remove a blank second line of the street address.)

 

So if you're relying on eBay's email record, you'll need to look up the ZIP code to figure out which state it went to. (According to Wikipedia, there are 34 Springfields in 25 states. 😁)

 

That aside, this new requirement is supposed to be for the seller to prove that a high-value item actually made it to the authenticators' address before mysteriously disappearing (or however the Item Not Received claim by eBay is going to go). If using their label, it presumably will have the correct address on it, but the wording of the announcement seems to be aimed more at seeing proof that it actually went there and not someplace else, either by mistake or deliberately (e.g. by pasting a different street address over the label, and mailing a trinket instead of the actual high-value sale).

 

In other words, if the seller's high-value item never makes it to the authenticators' address, it puts eBay in the position of a buyer, and they'll file an Item Not Received dispute against the seller, because otherwise they're the ones who have to refund the buyer for an item that they apparently lost along the way. They will very much want to be sure that the item was indeed in their hands before having to cough up the refund, and that this wasn't just some kind of seller scam intended to keep the buyer's payment by sending a trinket to some other address in the same ZIP code as that of the authenticators.

 

So if all eBay wants to do is verify what address was on the label when shipped, I suppose the confirmation messages can show that, but I don't think it really does much more to prove that the package really did go where it was supposed to go. The Tracking number follows a package; it does not guide it, and order to verify the actual GPS location of the delivery, you need access to data that only the carriers have, and which they do not offer on-line.

Message 57 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

devon@ebay we're now less than a week from this new seller protection policy taking effect. Any updates?

I have to agree with what @a_c_green said earlier - if eBay cannot provide the basic information for sellers to be able to make sure they are complying with the new policy, then eBay should delay that policy until such time as they can provide that information.

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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022


@valueaddedresource wrote:

devon@ebay we're now less than a week from this new seller protection policy taking effect. Any updates?

I have to agree with what @a_c_green said earlier - if eBay cannot provide the basic information for sellers to be able to make sure they are complying with the new policy, then eBay should delay that policy until such time as they can provide that information.


devon@ebay  elizabeth@ebay - anything?

Message 59 of 75
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Re: Regarding new Seller protection update effective Nov 1, 2022

@valueaddedresource  @a_c_green 

cc: 

Thank you for reaching out to eBay. We are working on a response to your questions and will get back to you shortly.  We apologize for the delay.

A detailed response will be provided shortly, but in the meantime -

eBay may request you to provide additional evidence such as Proof of shipment, if we cannot automatically determine that the item was delivered to the authenticator.

Proof of shipment is a Shipping label that provides date when the item was shipped and the address item is being shipped to.

Thanks

Rajee

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