eBay

maison*de*luxe · ‎09-26-2022

Ebay sent a email today stating

"Effective November 1, 2022, we will update how we define evidence of successful delivery for Authenticity Guarantee transactions in our eBay Money Back Guarantee program and Payment dispute seller protections.

You’re required to use a tracked shipping service showing the delivery status to the authenticator’s address in order to qualify for “Item not received” protection. Previously, we looked for evidence showing at least the city or zip code of the address, however now we will look for evidence of shipment to the full address."

As UPS, Fedex and USPS will only display city and zip code on their online tracking. How do we show the shipment is been delivered to the full address? As this will affect all Payment Dispute Seller Protections cases.

valueaddedresource · ‎10-03-2022

@ittybitnot wrote:
Can you imagine a company .......
@dolcetreasures

There is really no need to "imagine", when examples of same are provided here frequently for all to see.

People are concerned and want clarity, and specifics to avoid pitfalls and "gotchas" that often arrive after the fact. To loosely quote a CS agent from many years ago: "Yes sir, I know what the policy states, but that it is not what it means."

@ittybitnot I've found a declassified page from the eBay CS manual. 😉

the_fancy_fox · ‎10-03-2022

I know of no shipping service that shows the full delivery address on line. Is there one that does that I have over looked?

Either this is ebay intentionally creating a scammers paradise or being absolutely clueless about the policy they set and the repercussions that will follow.

I am watching this one closely. It will dictate whether I continue selling here in the future.

The Race is over
The Rats won.

valueaddedresource · ‎10-03-2022

@the_fancy_fox wrote:
I know of no shipping service that shows the full delivery address on line. Is there one that does that I have over looked?

Either this is ebay intentionally creating a scammers paradise or being absolutely clueless about the policy they set and the repercussions that will follow.

I am watching this one closely. It will dictate whether I continue selling here in the future.

@the_fancy_fox I'm not aware of any that provide it publicly viewable online where eBay (or anyone else for that matter) could see it just by looking up the tracking number.

That's why the question about documentation is so important - eBay needs to be specific about what they will or will not accept as full address proof of delivery.

Are sellers going to have to take pictures of each individual box with the shipping label on it showing the full address before shipping? Would that even qualify?

Maybe they will require us to submit a copy of the billing statement or manifest from the carrier showing the address?

Or is this a way to make using a label from eBay a de facto "requirement" so they can "verify" what address was on the label?

I would hope these are things that would have been thought about *before* announcing this change to seller protection rather than just leaving it up to individual CS reps to determine at the point of there being an INR claim, but unsurprisingly that doesn't seem to be the case.

ittybitnot · ‎10-03-2022

I know of no shipping service that shows the full delivery address on line.

@the_fancy_fox

Up until a few weeks ago, the street address was available for UPS and FedEx (and others that were NOT USPS) parcels on this website. Before I started recommending it, I did test it with a variety of labels on boxes I had around here, and with tracking numbers for products I sent using UPS. They all showed the street address as well as origin, date, package size, weight, and street address.

This was very helpful for buyers that were victims of the "fake tracking scam". They actually could get some online viewable by anyone proof that those tracking numbers were not related to parcels intended for them. eBay was faced with having to pay up instead of saying "item shows delivered" (you lose).

Lately, however, it appears a lot of that very useful information has been removed. Once in a while it still shows, but something happened in general that is not good. https://www.ship24.com/

the_fancy_fox · ‎10-03-2022

@the_fancy_fox I'm not aware of any that provide it publicly viewable online where eBay (or anyone else for that matter) could see it just by looking up the tracking number.
That's why the question about documentation is so important - eBay needs to be specific about what they will or will not accept as full address proof of delivery.
Are sellers going to have to take pictures of each individual box with the shipping label on it showing the full address before shipping? Would that even qualify?
Maybe they will require us to submit a copy of the billing statement or manifest from the carrier showing the address?
Or is this a way to make using a label from eBay a de facto "requirement" so they can "verify" what address was on the label?
I would hope these are things that would have been thought about *before* announcing this change to seller protection rather than just leaving it up to individual CS reps to determine at the point of there being an INR claim, but unsurprisingly that doesn't seem to be the case.

From what I know of ebay in my 20+ years here is if sellers do not stand up and get vocal on this the ebay suits will set this as policy and will make it standard across the board.

I’m sure they have all the statistics and charts showing how many returns each seller would technically have to absorb. And as long as scammers are buying and spending the sellers money, it’s fine. Ebay makes money. Sellers get a ding in their account and enough dings equals higher fees….. and down the rabbit hole we go.

The Race is over
The Rats won.

valueaddedresource · ‎10-03-2022

@ittybitnot wrote:
I know of no shipping service that shows the full delivery address on line.
@the_fancy_fox

Up until a few weeks ago, the street address was available for UPS and FedEx (and others that were NOT USPS) parcels on this website. Before I started recommending it, I did test it with a variety of labels on boxes I had around here, and with tracking numbers for products I sent using UPS. They all showed the street address as well as origin, date, package size, weight, and street address.

This was very helpful for buyers that were victims of the "fake tracking scam". They actually could get some online viewable by anyone proof that those tracking numbers were not related to parcels intended for them. eBay was faced with having to pay up instead of saying "item shows delivered" (you lose).

Lately, however, it appears a lot of that very useful information has been removed. Once in a while it still shows, but something happened in general that is not good. https://www.ship24.com/

@ittybitnot that's surprising and I would guess they have stopped doing it possibly because of facing regulatory or legal scrutiny due to security concerns.

There are many good reasons from a consumer protection standpoint not to want that info publicly displayed - carriers can and do recycle tracking numbers and bad actors could easily create scripts to run through randomly generated numbers that fit the carrier's pattern and scrape the resulting personal data.

Unfortunately it's a two edged sword, like you said it would be good for those trying to fight the fake tracking scam, but exposing personal data publicly also opens up all kinds of ways for the bad guys to mis-use it too.

a_c_green · ‎10-03-2022

@valueaddedresource wrote:
@the_fancy_fox I'm not aware of any that provide it publicly viewable online where eBay (or anyone else for that matter) could see it just by looking up the tracking number.
That's why the question about documentation is so important - eBay needs to be specific about what they will or will not accept as full address proof of delivery.
Are sellers going to have to take pictures of each individual box with the shipping label on it showing the full address before shipping? Would that even qualify?

Probably not, since of course photos do not show anything about what may have happened to the package either before or after the photo was taken.

Just a small point, but I think we might want to keep in mind that at the present time anyway, this new requirement (according to the OP wording above) only pertains to shipments going from a seller to an authenticator. Presumably eBay does not want to be filing their own Item Not Received disputes against their own sellers if a shipment to their authenticator doesn't show up, because under the current rules, they would lose if the seller can show a Delivered status to the authenticator's City and ZIP.

valueaddedresource · ‎10-03-2022

@a_c_green wrote:
@valueaddedresource wrote:
@the_fancy_fox I'm not aware of any that provide it publicly viewable online where eBay (or anyone else for that matter) could see it just by looking up the tracking number.
That's why the question about documentation is so important - eBay needs to be specific about what they will or will not accept as full address proof of delivery.
Are sellers going to have to take pictures of each individual box with the shipping label on it showing the full address before shipping? Would that even qualify?
Probably not, since of course photos do not show anything about what may have happened to the package either before or after the photo was taken.
Just a small point, but I think we might want to keep in mind that at the present time anyway, this new requirement (according to the OP wording above) only pertains to shipments going from a seller to an authenticator. Presumably eBay does not want to be filing their own Item Not Received disputes against their own sellers if a shipment to their authenticator doesn't show up, because under the current rules, they would lose if the seller can show a Delivered status to the authenticator's City and ZIP.

@a_c_green I think that's exactly why they are doing it - they're tired of being on the hook for those claims on shipments to the authenticator due to the current rules, so they changed them. That's their prerogative of course but if they are going to change the rules, it would be helpful for the players to know the details of what the new rules are.

Good call out that it is only for authenticated items, in case that got lost in the discussion, but all those questions about what documentation will be accepted still apply- sellers of items that are required to go to authentication need to know what they need to keep record of "just in case".

I agree pictures probably wouldn't be enough, based on how eBay has historically dismissed pictures as evidence in claims, but that's why we're asking the questions.

a_c_green · ‎10-03-2022

@valueaddedresource wrote:
I agree pictures probably wouldn't be enough, based on how eBay has historically dismissed pictures as evidence in claims, but that's why we're asking the questions.

Ayup. I have to say, this has all the hallmarks of some higher-up issuing an edict without any clear understanding of the situation, and now his minions are scratching their heads over how to actually implement it, given the (lack of) tracking detail available to sellers by the carriers. This might explain the silence (which will be a week this coming Wednesday) in responding to what seems like a pretty clear question.

That quote does in fact say that "Effective November 1, 2022, we will update how we define evidence of successful delivery," so one could argue that they have given themselves a month to figure out how to describe what they want sellers to provide before announcing it, but obviously it would be better if they could explain it in advance, and not just spring [something] on everyone on that day. If they can't describe their updated definition before November 1st, at least postpone its activation day to December or even post-Christmas January.

a_c_green · ‎10-05-2022

devon@ebay wrote:
@a_c_green wrote:
devon@ebay wrote:
@valueaddedresource wrote:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Seller-protection-update-for-Authenticity-Guarantee-tran...
"We also encourage you to save documentation from the carrier that shows the full address your orders were shipped to in the event of any disputes."
devon@ebay what specific documentation would eBay be looking for that shows the full address to qualify for this seller protection?
[...]
Hey @valueaddedresource! I will reach out to the correct team on this and once I get an update myself or elizabeth@ebay will share that information!
devon@ebay: it's been 3½ days since this relatively simple question was asked of whoever wrote that update above. Can you light a fire under whoever's responsible for answering that before you take off for the weekend?
Hey @a_c_green! We are still waiting on an update from the Sneakers Team for this. I will be sure to reach back out to them today and once there is an update I will be sure to share that with everyone!

Hi devon@ebay! We're past a week now since that question was asked of the Sneakers Team. Can you ping someone over there and ask what the holdup is?

As a fallback, assuming you know the name of the person who is supposed to be responding to you and is not, try phoning them instead. That will probably startle them ("What's that ringing sound?"), but it will be a lot harder for them to ignore you when you're actually phoning them up.

maison*de*luxe · ‎10-05-2022

Hello Devon,

Can we get an answer for all categories this new policy applies? Not just for the Sneakers department....

devon@ebay · ‎10-06-2022

@maison*de*luxe wrote:

Hello Devon,

Can we get an answer for all categories this new policy applies? Not just for the Sneakers department....

Hey @maison*de*luxe @a_c_green @valueaddedresource and others. I have an update to share from the Sneaker Team in regards to the recent Seller News Announcements that went out last week and this is what they wanted to share:

"For reference: 9/26 sneakers SNA - “Updates to the sneakers experience on eBay”

Effective November 1, 2022, we will update how we define evidence of successful delivery for Authenticity Guarantee transactions in our eBay Money Back Guarantee program and Payment dispute seller protections.

You’re required to use a tracked shipping service showing the delivery status to the authenticator’s address in order to qualify for “Item not received” protection. Previously, we looked for evidence showing at least the city or zip code of the address. Starting November 1, we’ll look for evidence of shipment to the authenticator’s full address. Once an item is marked as received by an authenticator, delivery of the item to the buyer becomes eBay’s responsibility, and if there are any delivery issues, we’ll work with the buyer to resolve them.

We will continue to require signature confirmation for orders valued at $750 or more, and we strongly recommend shipping insurance for high value orders.

We also encourage you to save documentation from the carrier that shows the full address your orders were shipped to in the event of any disputes.

As always, thank you for selling on eBay.

The eBay Team"

Devon,

valueaddedresource · ‎10-06-2022

devon@ebay wrote:
@maison*de*luxe wrote:
Hello Devon,
Can we get an answer for all categories this new policy applies? Not just for the Sneakers department....
Hey @maison*de*luxe @a_c_green @valueaddedresource and others. I have an update to share from the Sneaker Team in regards to the recent Seller News Announcements that went out last week and this is what they wanted to share:

"For reference: 9/26 sneakers SNA - “Updates to the sneakers experience on eBay”
Effective November 1, 2022, we will update how we define evidence of successful delivery for Authenticity Guarantee transactions in our eBay Money Back Guarantee program and Payment dispute seller protections.
You’re required to use a tracked shipping service showing the delivery status to the authenticator’s address in order to qualify for “Item not received” protection. Previously, we looked for evidence showing at least the city or zip code of the address. Starting November 1, we’ll look for evidence of shipment to the authenticator’s full address. Once an item is marked as received by an authenticator, delivery of the item to the buyer becomes eBay’s responsibility, and if there are any delivery issues, we’ll work with the buyer to resolve them.
We will continue to require signature confirmation for orders valued at $750 or more, and we strongly recommend shipping insurance for high value orders.
We also encourage you to save documentation from the carrier that shows the full address your orders were shipped to in the event of any disputes.
As always, thank you for selling on eBay.
The eBay Team"

devon@ebay - so it took "the team" a week and half to literally copy and paste the announcement I linked to when asking that question?

I know it isn't your fault but....seriously?! 😒

The question was asking for clarification and further details on what was in that announcement - copying and pasting the text in question is not an update nor is it a satisfactory answer.

a_c_green · ‎10-06-2022

devon@ebay wrote:
Hey @maison*de*luxe @a_c_green @valueaddedresource and others. I have an update to share from the Sneaker Team in regards to the recent Seller News Announcements that went out last week and this is what they wanted to share:

Words fail me, devon@ebay ... They quoted back to you the original Seller News Announcement, that's all. They did not address any questions about further details on exactly how a seller was supposed to obtain street address information in addition to the City and ZIP tracking details that are currently provided.

Now, someone over there is asleep at the switch, unable to find an answer to the actual questions being asked, or simply doesn't care. I'm afraid it's up to you to find that person and get a genuine answer out of him. We here cannot reach him behind the walls of eBay, so we're hoping that you can do whatever's required to actually get them to communicate.

Given everyone's working-from-home situation these days, it's not longer as simple as walking over to the relevant department, leaning over the top of the cubicle in question, and whacking the offending party in the head with a rolled-up printout of eBay website problem reports. You may need to escalate this to whoever is in charge of the doofus who sent you that meaningless reply, but if you do succeed in having actual dialogue and getting a meaningful answer on our behalf, we will be eternally grateful. Until next time, anyway. 😉 Thanks.

valueaddedresource · ‎10-07-2022

At this point, if I were selling authenticated items, I'd be left with no other conclusion than to assume that there will be no seller protection for items that go "missing" after having a delivery scan, since we have no idea what could possibly be used as full address proof of delivery.

Also at this point, if I were selling those kinds of items, I'd be thinking long and hard about whether I would continue selling them on eBay, given the complete lack of transparent communication from our so called "partner" in this matter.

devon@ebay thank you for trying and this is not aimed at you, it's just incredibly frustrating that either no one at eBay thought through the details on this or someone at eBay has decided not to disclose those details well in advance and in writing so sellers can be prepared.