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Proving what you sent works.

So I have read and seen and heard stories of sellers getting rocks returned, people saying they got an item that does not work or other such buyer scams. I thought about this long and hard. So if I set up my packaging right next to my test bench, then getting the item while filming video, show the item being hooked up, then working, then being boxed then keeping the camera on the package at all times ,(never let it get out of picture frame) this would include driving it to the post office and only turning off the camera once it was put in the postal employees hands. This would show that you did indeed mail a perfect working item. The critical part is to make sure the package NEVER goes off frame for even one second, they can say you did something off camera, switched packages ect... I believe you can't as a buyer intent on scamming, dispute that no matter what you say. Anyone ever done this, would this work, how can it be improved to make it work if not?

Message 1 of 39
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38 REPLIES 38

Proving what you sent works.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that would all be in vain.

All a buyer has to do is open an item not as described case and eBay will require that you send that buyer a prepaid return label, then refund in full when you get the item back.

The buyer is not required to prove that the item is not as described.  So why waste your time doing all that? If a buyer is determined to open a case and get a refund, it's a tidal wave, you are just standing right there getting hit with it.  

Message 2 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

I have seen several times sellers saying they did just that type of thing and getting skunked anyway on returns, NAD,  etc. Ebay will tell you videos ( or anything else you do) can be tampered with. Waste of your time. Ebay sides with buyers the vast majority of the time. 

Message 3 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

No one has tried it yet, that's what everyone is used to. What I am proposing is indisputable proof of a working item being sent. How can eBay side with a customer if you send them that video, I know it will definitely hold up in court and you could have some one arrested and brought up on charges with that video after they file a false claim at that point. eBay would have to follow suit with the courts. It has the luxury of not having been tried yet. I am almost half tempted to get some small item and have a friend buy it on eBay on obviously some made up account just to see what happens. I think it would work as no one in there right mind could say you did not ship a working item as described. 100% I think even if eBay sideded with the buyer, at that point you could call the police and get your money back thru them and the best part, justice for the scammer as that's a conviction on there record and what ever consequences the court imposes.

Message 4 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

Ever been to the movies?  Videos can be edited.  

 

Message 5 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

And Ebay would tell you that videos can be doctored, from what we hear on these boards for years is that they refuse to look at them.



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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams
Message 6 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

Maybe, if an item was costly enough and you hand delivered it and took a video of the two of you watching a demonstration of it working......then maybe it would hold up in a small claims court. 

I say maybe because buyer could claim it stopped working properly a day later.

But who's going to do all that ? and as far as eBay goes, it would be a waste of time anyway.

Best you're gonna do is get it to get it back, hope it does still work, resell it and notify eBay that the   buyer put in a false claim.

Message 7 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

I'll play along with your theory for a moment, but how can you also prove something didn't happen in transit to render it non-working upon arrival?  Filming is a waste of energy--ebay wants no part of picking sides.  That was decided when they enacted the money back guarantee, which sellers have to agree to in order to sell.   Since buyers don't have to prove anything, a seller trying to prove something goes nowhere.

Message 8 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

Great idea, but it won’t work with eBay.  It would only be valuable in a civil suit OR for the credible threat of a civil suit.  

Message 9 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

Hi @jayram1408 

 

It’s a clever idea.   But one thing that your precautions doesn’t take into account is that a working item can become nonfunctional after you drop it off at the post office.

 

Sellers are responsible for damage that occurs in transit  … something you can’t prove didn’t happen, since the camera would have stopped filming.

Message 10 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.


@jayram1408 wrote:

No one has tried it yet, that's what everyone is used to. 


Actually, it has been tried before and it does no good.

Message 11 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

Maybe it stopped working or got switched in route to the customer, all this will not work, plus who has the time to do all this when 99.9% of buyers are honest.

Message 12 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

Unless we were talklng about the theft of a Van Gogh or the Hope Diamond,  no one investigating a claim  is going to sit through a video that long.

 

And even then, very little weight would be put on the video as evidence, and it alone would be far from enough proof to an insurance investigator or in a court of law -- and that's making the big assumption that either would even consider its use as evidence, given that there are so many ways to tamper with a video.

 

What you want is some kind of guarantee that you will never be cheated or have a loss selling on-line.   Sorry but that is not possible.

 

ALL retailers face loss through theft, damage to the merchandise on the floor, abuse of their return policies, credit card chargebacks, etc.  Pricing must cover those inevitable losses.  If the losses become too great, the retailer shuts up shop, as CVS, Walgreens, et al, have done recently in some major cities.

 

Your idea is that your local police department will look at the video, go after the thief, the local prosecutors would then bring a case, and finally the court would see that you got your money back, means that you don't understand how the justice system works.

 

If you cannot bear the loss, financially or emotionally, of whatever it is you intend to sell, then you must sell only in person and for cash.  And check the cash to be sure it isn't counterfeit.

 

.

Message 13 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

People often confuse INAD as something that has to be proven. INAD is a subjective criterion. There is no court of eBay that reviews the facts of the case, and no due process.  It was designed a safeguard to increase buyers trust in the marketplace to work in concert with the MBG.

 

The root of the problem is that eBay still allows sellers to not take returns and therefore eBay needs to be in the middle to protect buyers. eBay should go to a 100% return policy and refunds upon acceptance by the seller.  Yes, there will still be fraud that's happening across all ecommere today read  This article explains a few things including incre... - The eBay Community

 

Amazon does not refund, and it can take several weeks to actually get one, until the item is returned and accepted. The whole notion of opening a case or dispute is antiquated and unhelpful. It creates confusion and actually creates the illusion that cases are being reviewed fairly. They are not.

Message 14 of 39
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Proving what you sent works.

Nope, sorry I'm going through this right now (look at my feedback).    Sent out a small hobby grade rc plane that I repaired and sold to a person with 700+ feedback.   No messages from the buyer asking how it works, just a return stating that the plane didn't do what it was supposed to do.  (what they were describing was something that happens in other rc planes but not this one).  So fine I'll do a return, whatever.    I get the mail and check.  It's the same box I shipped but it's not the plane I sent.  I looked for the place I repaired, not there.  I looked at the tape where I had taken out the flight controller, still intact.   So this was not the plane I sent, I tested it and it was broken. the flight controller was bad, the expensive part of the plane.   I have gotten to the point that I won't sell anything over 100 bucks.  This was a nice little plane that worked great and I thought somebody might like a good plane cheap.  So much for being nice.  I now will take the planes I buy apart and just sell parts here.  It's just not worth the hassle anymore.   When I got back the plane that I didn't send.  I reported the buyer and started a case (which immediately got me a negative from the scammer)  I was going to just suck it up like always, but then it just got me mad and I figured it's getting to hard to make a buck on here anymore, I'm going to stick this though and see if the good guys really can win.

So last night I got an email from Ebay saying they needed me to sign an affidavit and send it back stating that I had indeed got a box with something of lesser value then I sent out.  So I signed it and sent it back ASAP, and now I wait.

So we shall see.  the plane was only $100.00, he sent me back 20.00 in parts.  So this isn't a devastating loss or anything.  It means no more working things sold on Ebay, just parts.   Selling parts is pretty hard to get scammed over (but still can happen).  Scammers don't like parts, means they might have to do some work and they don't like that.   So my new buissiness model for ebay is, just RC parts, nothing over 100.00 and nothing to big to ship USPS. first class package.    I'm still on Ebay, but they are going to get much less money from me.

Message 15 of 39
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