Possible scam

[romansolus]

I recently sold a trading card and when I received the delivery confirmation message, the buyer of the card messaged me saying that the card was damaged even though I ship each card with 3 different levels of protection to prevent this exact problem, and that he wanted me to refund him (he didn't file a claim or anything, only messaging me). When I asked him to provide a photo of the packaging, I never got a response. I also went onto his selling account and noticed he listed that exact card immediately after receiving it, since it matched perfectly with the photos I took of it. Is it possible this is a scam that others have experienced?

[pburn]

If he opens a SNAD on eBay, approve the return, require that he return the card, supply a return mailing label, and do not refund until you get it back.

My guess is he won't return the same card you sent, but there's nothing you can do about that except file a police report. Depending on the cost of the card, you'll have to decide whether it's worth it to do that.

[espresso_warehouse · Accepted solution]

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@pburn wrote:

If he opens a SNAD on eBay, approve the return, require that he return the card, supply a return mailing label, and do not refund until you get it back.

My guess is he won't return the same card you sent, but there's nothing you can do about that except file a police report. Depending on the cost of the card, you'll have to decide whether it's worth it to do that.

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False. I've had eBay back me up several times in this same situation and there are things you can do. Here are the steps.

1. Keep your cool and stay civil in messages

2. Report the buyer immediately for the most applicable item(abusing returns)

3. Ask for a callback and request buyer be investigated(before you even send the label). Have them read any messages. These fraudsters will often incriminate themselves in messages.

3. Don't miss any deadlines or let eBay 'step in', instead follow the process, send labels if you have to, keep updating CS about the case as more information comes to light.

4. If you receive an empty box back, Report the buyer again for most applicable reason(returning an item in a different condition)

5. Request a callback from eBay right away upon receipt of empty box or replaced item. If they refuse to escalate your case or investigate the buyer, ask for a supervisor. If the supervisor is defaulting to inaction hang up and request another callback.

6. Do not 'let eBay step in' unless you are strongly recommended to do so by a coherent agent.

7. Request an appeal to a higher tier. This is where you are generally switched over to email and sometimes even US agents.

8. Supply photos and any other evidence you have.

9. Fill out their declaration or affidavit.

It's important you fight fraud and not acquiesce. A buyer engaging in this kind of fraud is going to move on to the next seller if you 'do nothing' as has been suggested. No guarantee you win these cases or even get an appeal, but most people who stay on it and remain factual can fight this fraud pretty effectively.

I'm not sure what filing a police report would do. I would only pursue that if either eBay recommends you do so, if you have insurance which requires it, or if there is any actionable matter that police will pursue. Theft under $900 has become an unenforceable infraction in CA. I don't know about other states.

[pburn]

False. You've never had eBay find in your favor in a case like the OP's.

[espresso_warehouse]

That's an intersting claim on your part.

Of bigger issue, why do you spend your energy trying to convince people not to fight fraud?

[pburn]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

That's an intersting claim on your part.

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Well, "intersting" as it may be, the claim was yours. Can you prove it? Can you provide any evidence?

@espresso_warehouse wrote:

Of bigger issue, why do you spend your energy trying to convince people not to fight fraud?

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What are you trying to imply? That I work for eBay? 😂

[espresso_warehouse]

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@pburn wrote:

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

That's an intersting claim on your part.

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Well, "intersting" as it may be, the claim was yours. Can you prove it? Can you provide any evidence?

@espresso_warehouse wrote:

Of bigger issue, why do you spend your energy trying to convince people not to fight fraud?

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What are you trying to imply? That I work for eBay? 😂

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I have emails and signed declarations, so yes. Definitely can prove it. But again, if you are simply unaware of of the appeals process I invested a few minutes explaining to the OP I invite you to read what I wrote so you can learn about it.

If you are aware of the appeals process and are simply misrepresenting its existence, I don't think the implication would be you work for eBay.

[pburn]

Well, that's what you say, but I don't see any proof of any of your statements.

[espresso_warehouse]

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@pburn wrote:

Well, that's what you say, but I don't see any proof of any of your statements.

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There's no proof you are even a seller. Your lack of experience would explain why you are seemingly unaware of the entire appeals process.

If you don't believe the appeals process exists that can be remedied.

[pburn]

Perhaps your lack of experience on the community discussion boards makes you unfamiliar with the concept of using a buying or a posting id for participation in the community rather than posting with a selling id. 

You are correct, though, that I lack experience with the appeals process. Fortunately, as a seller, I've never been in a predicament that would require appealing an eBay decision, but just in case I ever am, I'd like to have some proof of the claims I've read concerning the success with your approach. So far, I haven't seen any, so I'll continue to seek guidance with those who can support their advice with something concrete.

Unfortunately, rather than something concrete, I'm still just reading these vague references to the success of this appeals process, with a few attempts at some insults to discredit me thrown in just to somehow bolster your position, but I'm just not seeing any proof of it. Makes me wonder whether it really is as successful as the claims.

It's apparent any evidence that this multi-step appeals process has been successful will not be forthcoming, so I'm not going to expect to see any further verification or justification that will support those claims. 

Good luck with any further appeals you may have to submit to eBay.

[espresso_warehouse]

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@pburn wrote:

You are correct, though, that I lack experience with the appeals process.

That is painfully obvious.

It would probably be for the best going forward if you don't 'advise' people that 'there's nothing you can do' when the reality is you just don't know anything about the process at all.

My attempt was to actually help OP, your post was designed to mislead them.

[numisnorway]

They ask for a police report when return fraud is involved. Strange how you don't know that espresso_warehouse.

[espresso_warehouse]

More checking, eh?

They've never asked me nor has it ever been necessary. You are free to share your experience if you think it's going to be helpful. But it doesn't seem to be your goal here.

[onnius]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

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False. I've had eBay back me up several times in this same situation and there are things you can do. Here are the steps.

<snip>

I wish this post from @espresso_warehouse could be stickied or pinned to the top of the forum somehow, because it's stuff eBay doesn't sell you - you won't find it in any of their vague and generic FAQ pages - and it's not information you'll get from what seem like borderline-toxic forum posters that claim to be "long time sellers" but hide behind socket-puppet "posting accounts" and appear to regularly dish out bad information.

Having just successfully dealt with my own scammer situation on a fairly expensive item, I can vouch for the bulletpoints being 100% accurate. I recommend everyone file that post into a safe location to be able to refer back to in the event you have to deal with your own scammer - they're getting more sophisticated, and the energy required for getting assistance from ebay. 

Here the list is again - courtesy of @espresso_warehouse - it's important - copy this or print it out.

1. Keep your cool and stay civil in messages 

2. Report the buyer immediately for the most applicable item (abusing returns)

3. Ask for a callback and request buyer be investigated(before you even send the label). Have them read any messages. These fraudsters will often incriminate themselves in messages.

4. Don't miss any deadlines or let eBay 'step in', instead follow the process, send labels if you have to, keep updating CS about the case as more information comes to light.

5. If you receive an empty box back, Report the buyer again for most applicable reason(returning an item in a different condition) 

5. Request a callback from eBay right away upon receipt of empty box or replaced item. If they refuse to escalate your case or investigate the buyer, ask for a supervisor. If the supervisor is defaulting to inaction hang up and request another callback.

6. Do not 'let eBay step in' unless you are strongly recommended to do so by a coherent agent.

7. Request an appeal to a higher tier. This is where you are generally switched over to email and sometimes even US agents.

8. Supply photos and any other evidence you have.

9. Fill out their declaration or affidavit.

[onnius]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

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It's important you fight fraud and not acquiesce. A buyer engaging in this kind of fraud is going to move on to the next seller if you 'do nothing' as has been suggested. No guarantee you win these cases or even get an appeal, but most people who stay on it and remain factual can fight this fraud pretty effectively.

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A thousand times this. As sellers we've GOT to help each other out. There are some very elaborate scams still taking place on ebay right at this moment, and I feel for the sellers that miss subtle red flags or don't realize what's going on and then get duped - there are gaping loopholes in eBay's return process that are being exploited to defraud honest sellers. 

I had to spend hours researching and deciphering what the scammer was doing in my case, and even then he almost got away with it. I've been able to make contact with someone at ebay corporate and spent a lot of time painstakingly detailing what happened and providing a full blueprint of the scammer's actions, in hopes they strengthen their security. 

I don't agree with the sentiment that it's "dog eat dog" and every seller for himself.  If one seller loses, we all lose. If the eBay platform continues to go to s*hit as the defacto "scammer's den", we all suffer. We're all interconnected.