Poll: strict rules for listings with variations

[traut-gmx]

Hi all,

what's your experience with listings that contain variations?

I feel that this is one of the most abused and thus useless choices that sellers have.

The typical malpractice is: Create a listing with variations to select from. Have some more expensive choices, but do include at least ONE item which is much cheaper, although it's somethin perfectly different than named within the title - e.g. a small piece of accessory.

This does manipulate the search, to show this auction with a very low price, although the item which people are looking for is much more expensive.

Even worse, ebay does not show the full range of prices, but many times the lowest price ONLY.
And ebay does not offer any option NOT to show listings with variations.

In former times, the rules where more strict that variations may list items of comparable characteristics only, but not perfectly different items:

ebay sell: listing variations What wouldn't be considered a multi-variation listing?

Nowadays I to not find these limits any more:

ebay sell: Creating listings with variations The prices of your items can vary...

Because of this frequent abuse, I'd welcome a poll:

[  ] 1. ebay must not permit variation listings with very different characteristics

[  ] 2. ebay should create an option to exclude variation listings

[  ] 3. variation listings must have the SAME price for each item. A price range of ±10% could be tolerable

(is there any other choice to create a poll nowadays, instead of using the reply button?)

Thanks for an active participation within this poll!

[Anonymous]

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@chrysylys wrote:

Multi-Variation Abuse has been a hot topic here in recent months.  Staff has been shown a large number of blatant examples and suggestions have been offered to end the practice, but so far, they have done nothing.

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Hi @chrysylys, I must clear up this misinformation - the Community Team has passed along examples from multiple conversations and been working closely with the appropriate teams to drive change in this area. This is something that is definitely on our developers radar and while we are not able to provide you with a timeframe or specifics on future improvements, I assure you that this topic is being worked on. This situation can create a poor buyer experience and manipulates search placement, negatively impacting other sellers. This is absolutely something we are going to address, but time is needed to identify the best resolution for all parties involved that does not unintentionally diminish the eBay experience for our Community. We appreciate your patience on this matter and while I know it can seem at times like nothing is being done, discussion, planning and development are being pursued on our end.

[Anonymous]

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@lovtaco0 wrote:

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@traut-gmxwrote:

I don't get your differing of item based search and product based search.

Just do a search on "magnetic usb". I feel this is product based, isn't it?

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No, that search is listing based and there is no option to group similar items. You can sort items by price instead of best match to see the price ranges.

Upon closer look the blanket search is also item based, not product based. When I saw the text that said "new and used from..." underneath I mistakenly thought it was the product based search.

@Anonymous Can you provide some insight why a best match search does not always show the price range for a variation listing?

When you search "magnetic usb" filtered by best match listings with variations don't show the price range, just the price of the least expensive item in the listing. If you change the filter to sort by price the price range for variations becomes visible.

When you search "chezmoi collection blanket" listings with variations show the price range whether you sort by price or best match.

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Hi @lovtaco0, thanks for getting my attention on this topic. Upon first review, I'm not sure why the price is displaying differently for different items when using the same search options. I will look into these examples and see what I can find. As soon as I have more info, I will update the thread.

[ted_200]

Since they reference a particular listing, it's probably going to get edited or deleted, but...you guessed it! This would-be buyer is angry because of bogus variance listings. I pointed that out to the Chat hosts, and offered to provide many examples. I also told them it's already a hot topic today, but Chat was about to close & I didn't have time to grab a link to this thread.  We'll see if they ask me for more info....

There have been continuous complaints about this on the Buying Board, and fairly regular ones posted here too (sometimes later moved to the Buying Board by the mods).  There are millions of these listings on the site, eBay even promoted one on there "Under $10" event thing... under "Mens t-shirts under $5", top of page 1, was a listing for $2.99 + Free Ship, and every single shirt in the listing was actually $8.99.   There wasn't even an unrelated item in there for 2.99, there was no way to get the listing to say $2.99 no matter what you selected for any of the variations. 

I don't see how the "product-based search" is supposed to weed these out.  The titles are for the product, the pictures are for that product, it's going to think it's the product.  It's only the price that is usually associated with a single picture of a totally unrelated item.  The product based search is going to return that listing, and display a bogus price. 

That's not doing a whole lot to leave buyers "thrilled". 

[ted_200]

The only reliable way to stop it would be to require the same price for everything in the listing.  If seller needs to charge more for larger size, as an example, they'll just have to write two listings.

Otherwise, eBay is going to end up playing whack-a-mole with 10,000 sellers and 10,000,000 listings, or more, and the problem will never really go away.

[dhbookds]

@Anonymous

Glad to hear that it's recognized as a problem and being looked at....

This may not seem to apply, but I think it does, in a larger way.   There is no way to "report" a seller as such and I think there should be....  We can only report specific listings....  Now whether whoever checks those listings has time to actually check the rest of the seller listings which may have the same violation, I don't know.   The few reports I've done and followed to what may have been a takedown, don't seem to indicated anything other than attention to the specific listings.  If a seller has 100's/1000's of listings obviously no one can/will report them all.    At the same time, there is often a violation going on in the squibb in the store header with phone #'s, off ebay web information, and/or bitter diatribes about ebay in general.  No way to report those, that I know of.  Some poor guy recently  reported one seller 3 times on the board, which were taken down because of naming/shaming, but he was right......the seller had multiple violations........and he was totally frustrated he couldn't figure out how to report him.  Trying to "keep" Ebay clean is not an easy task, but one in which some members would participate in.........IF there was an easy way........

[luxe_auto_parts]

Ooh! It's my pet peeve. When I'm searching for something here it literally may take hours! I could've spent much less time if policies were clearer and stricter.

I'm between the first and second options. Both seem proper and timely to make them now.

[traut-gmx]

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@dhbookdswrote:

This may not seem to apply, but I think it does, in a larger way.   There is no way to "report" a seller as such and I think there should be....

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When the rules where more strict and clear before (see the old .com.uk versus the current, shorter on .com), it never happened that a listing was removed.

You get the feeling that ebay just does not care about that kind of problem - or even does encourage it.

The problem could be fixed easily. It takes not much more than a simple decision...

[chrysylys]

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@traut-gmxwrote:

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The problem could be fixed easily. It takes not much more than a simple decision...

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Once a company becomes 'too big' and focuses only on profits and stock dividends, 'simple decisions' involved dozens and take weeks, if not months.

[luxe_beauty_4_less]

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@ted_200wrote:

The only reliable way to stop it would be to require the same price for everything in the listing.  If seller needs to charge more for larger size, as an example, they'll just have to write two listings.

Otherwise, eBay is going to end up playing whack-a-mole with 10,000 sellers and 10,000,000 listings, or more, and the problem will never really go away.

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I totally understand the frustration for the situation you're talking about.  I've also experienced that when looking for motorcycle helmets.  The chinese seller listed a goggle strap for a couple bucks in there which "price/shipping" forced them to the top...click on the listing, helmets are $89-$119.  However, there are legitimate reasons for variable pricing in multi-variant listings.  I use these alot (as I mentioned in an earlier post), for shade variations.  Some shades are in higher demand than others.  I may list 12 shades in my multi-variant listing.  The price range will not be more than a few dollars between them, however, I do not want to list them all at the same price as I can make more on some than others.  I'm not trying to "bait and switch", just give my buyers the shades available for the same product with the most competitive price available for each.  My buyers see all shades in one listing, and I don't have to create 12 separate listings with listing fees for each.  Unfortunately, there isn't a one size fits all rule to this issue.  

[traut-gmx]

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@chrysylyswrote:

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Once a company becomes 'too big' and focuses only on profits and stock dividends, 'simple decisions' involved dozens and take weeks, if not months.

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...while you may wonder about how other decisions are made.

On a perfectly different subject:

Is the system for Saved Searches as bad on ebay.com as it is on ebay.de?

Before, you could give proper names to your search. The mails had useful subject lines. E.g. a search saved with the name "Self-Sealing Stem Bolts" would arrive as

• Self-Sealing Stem Bolts: 5 new items
• Photon Torpedo: 1 new item

This does permit to sort by subject and does show what I want.

But some years ago the system was changed. No more names for Saved Searches - and whatever is used now for the subject is perfectly out of my control. So it does come e.g. as

• 1 new: -ferengi_trader_union, article descr......
• 5 new: below $5

That's great, isn't it?

Whoever now is responsible for changes and decisions probably never uses ebay on his own.

[traut-gmx]

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@luxe_beauty_4_lesswrote:

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However, there are legitimate reasons for variable pricing in multi-variant listings.  I use these alot (as I mentioned in an earlier post), for shade variations. 

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No one complains about such legit variations. That's actually what they are made for.

But the system has gone wild. And nothing is done about this abuse.

It's so bad now that it's better to sacrifice multi-variant listings with different prices just to get rid of this price scam. Bad for your legit offers, but you still do have the choice to split those offers to auctions, grouped to lots by the same price.

It is ok, too, to have volume discounts for 1/5/10/100... items, taking just one variant listing. But again, it is possible to split this to separate offers which are even easier to find, looking for "100pcs..." if you do want that many.

It's the abuse that harms both customers and reasonable usage.

[dcintennessee]

@dhbookds, excellent suggestions! 

I’d also like clarification for reporting the listings with OBVIOUS violations. Socks are not shoes; shoes don’t exist in size 0.168. The decision tree options for reporting listings with bogus variations don’t exactly match the offense. I think I finally found one for search manipulation?

Still, I highly doubt such listings or sellers will be removed. A struggling new seller who unknowingly violates a rule will get suspended or even banned. A mega-seller cash cow who purposefully violates many rules, will not. 

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

I ran across a variation listing the other day where the items were different brands of shirts. IMHO the item should be exactly the same item with color or size variations, that's it. No iPhone and cable in the same listing. If the items are completely different they should be in different listings.

[dcintennessee]

@traut-gmx, don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!  And, @luxe_beauty_4_less, one size really does fit almost all, and your business is a perfect example of why listing variations are appropriate & needed. 

I think we’re making it easier for eBay to do nothing by over complicating this. It’s called “listing with variations.” If it were “listing for LIKE items with variations” and enforced that way, most of this would be solved. A listing for “shirts” that are various brands, is not a listing of like items. A listing for “women’s shoes” with one pair of kid’s shoes (or unicorn socks!) included for search manipulation, is not a listing of like items. A listing for 8 different types of cell phone accessories is not a listing of like items. 

YES, some sellers will still include the one totally ugly or odd-sized item to manipulate search. That’s the whack-a-mole game that’s pointless. 

What’s hilarious is that yesterday I was listing ONE item, included 4 words about promotional pricing in the title, and couldn’t post it that way because the bots tagged it as search manipulation. Lordy mercy! 

[shoptalkid]

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@luxe_beauty_4_lesswrote:

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@ted_200wrote:

The only reliable way to stop it would be to require the same price for everything in the listing.  If seller needs to charge more for larger size, as an example, they'll just have to write two listings.

Otherwise, eBay is going to end up playing whack-a-mole with 10,000 sellers and 10,000,000 listings, or more, and the problem will never really go away.

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I totally understand the frustration for the situation you're talking about.  I've also experienced that when looking for motorcycle helmets.  The chinese seller listed a goggle strap for a couple bucks in there which "price/shipping" forced them to the top...click on the listing, helmets are $89-$119.  However, there are legitimate reasons for variable pricing in multi-variant listings.  I use these alot (as I mentioned in an earlier post), for shade variations.  Some shades are in higher demand than others.  I may list 12 shades in my multi-variant listing.  The price range will not be more than a few dollars between them, however, I do not want to list them all at the same price as I can make more on some than others.  I'm not trying to "bait and switch", just give my buyers the shades available for the same product with the most competitive price available for each.  My buyers see all shades in one listing, and I don't have to create 12 separate listings with listing fees for each.  Unfortunately, there isn't a one size fits all rule to this issue.  

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Agreed.   If I had to list all my related items separately, there would be thousands of separate listings for buyers to look through.  Eventually they are going to get frustrated.   By grouping  related items together, a buyer can purchase several from the same listing in a matter of minutes.    Should the price vary, because some variations are harder to find, then it's wise for a seller to make a note in a listing that the prices vary .