PayPal Chargebacks

[jmp2862]

So I sold two game codes on ebay on 2/28/2016 and I am now getting two chargebacks-unauthorized use of credit card. Yes I read some previous posts and checked google. I realize I am pretty much screwed.

I sold one to a person with little feed back but didn't email them the code. I sent the game code via usps first class with tracking and that was delivered to the address he/she gave me. I have submitted tracking # and a screenshot of the buyers address (from ebay email to paypal. Is there any chance this will be resolved in my favor? Also a month after I sent this, ebay sends an email saying they are cancelling the buyers bid due to suspicious buyer. 

The 2nd one had some feedback so I emailed the code to him via the ebay message system and sent via usps. When I went to leave him feedback I saw that he had some "scammer" feedback. Well this one no chance paypal will rule in my favor right? So is there any way to edit my feedback of this guy? Or should I try to tell ebay/paypal? Any point to submitting screenshots of the ebay messages between me and him to paypal as evidence for the dispute? Any other suggestion to what I should do? 

Also for future reference, is sending via usps with tracking "safe"? Thanks

[sandypurins]

Chargebacks are disputes the buyer files directly with his credit card issuer... they can be for INR, NAD or Unauthorized Transaction.  For INR and Unauthorized Transaction chargebacks, the seller will need to have "proof of shipment" or "proof of delivery".

Since PayPal has extended their dispute filing window to 180 days, the USPS 120 day tracking retention is also a concern for PayPal INR and Unauthorized Transaction disputes.

[emerald40]

Scammers will wait until the online tracking disappears, then file a chargeback for INR through Paypal or their credit card.

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And ebay or Griff cannot see through that and give sellers some protection against it?

I know as a buyer I would not wait 30 days to contact a seller if I did not receive something.  A week late, and I email them to  give him a heads up. 

But I guess scammers do not want to alert a seller until after it is too late.

[blackbird*singing]

Emerald - if they are a scammer they likely did receive the package, but they wait until online tracking disappears then file a claim hoping the seller cannot prove shipment/delivery. Then they get to keep the item and the refund.

I take screenshots of all my tracking & delivery confirmation for this reason.

[emerald40]

if they are a scammer they likely did receive the package, but they wait until online tracking disappears then file a claim hoping the seller cannot prove shipment/delivery. Then they get to keep the item and the refund.

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Exactly.  An honest buyer would contact a seller long before that inquiring where it is.

[jmp2862]

Yeah one of the tracking numbers shows up as delivered but for the 2nd one (the one I emailed the code to) nothing comes up on the tracking #. For the chargeback fee, like if I choose to just accept liability and take the charge, will I still get hit with the $20 fee. Or is that fee unavoidable once a chargeback has been initiated? Thank you

[jmp2862]

Well I sent both with tracking. One shows successfully delivered

The other one (the one I emailed the code to) the package eventually came back as undeliverable but the tracking number shows no info online. I mean if there was a problem the buyer has had almost 3 months to contact me so obviously the code I emailed worked. But I guess I'll just have to chat with the paypal/ebay reps to see if anything can be done though it looks like emailing the code in this case screwed me. Lesson learned. 

While googling this stuff I came across a slickdeals message board where someone was describing a similar case. Someone replied that they can sell the debt (like $50 in that case) to a collections agency. Ever heard of this? Also do you know of any way to go back and change your feedback for a buyer so I can warn other sellers? 

[mr_lincoln]

@blackbird*singing

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@prefontained wrote:

Emerald - if they are a scammer they likely did receive the package, but they wait until online tracking disappears then file a claim hoping the seller cannot prove shipment/delivery. Then they get to keep the item and the refund.

I take screenshots of all my tracking & delivery confirmation for this reason.

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Really? 

[sandypurins]

The chargeback fee is not charged when your payment is eligible for PayPal seller protection.

[blackbird*singing]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@blackbird*singing

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@prefontained wrote:

Emerald - if they are a scammer they likely did receive the package, but they wait until online tracking disappears then file a claim hoping the seller cannot prove shipment/delivery. Then they get to keep the item and the refund.

I take screenshots of all my tracking & delivery confirmation for this reason.

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Really? 

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The short answer: yes.

The longer answer: It takes a lot of time and energy to properly create a listing. Between photos, measurements, descriptions, research, shipping... It is so quick to take a screenshot of tracking on USPS site and of the eBay transaction with the tracking tied to it. Knowing that tracking expires before PayPal & CC window does... and knowing that even though postage was paid for through PayPal and tracking is uploaded to that transaction, they don't store the info (though they should)... why would I not take the time to do a couple of screenshots? I don't want to put all that work and my funds in jeopardy over something I could protect myself from with a couple of keyboard/mouse clicks.

I do it about once/week. Just screenshot everything from the week and dump it in folders (one for each selling account). I create subfolders to store between 1-3 months of screenshots, depending on volume.

Is most of it a waste of time? Sure, because most buyers are honest. It's insurance, though. If I encounter one of these scammers I would be kicking myself for not taking a minute to do a screen capture of my tracking when I could have.

I would love if USPS stored tracking longer so I didn't feel the need to do this.

[mr_lincoln]

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@prefontained wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@blackbird*singing

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@prefontained wrote:

Emerald - if they are a scammer they likely did receive the package, but they wait until online tracking disappears then file a claim hoping the seller cannot prove shipment/delivery. Then they get to keep the item and the refund.

I take screenshots of all my tracking & delivery confirmation for this reason.

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Really? 

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The short answer: yes.

The longer answer: It takes a lot of time and energy to properly create a listing. Between photos, measurements, descriptions, research, shipping... It is so quick to take a screenshot of tracking on USPS site and of the eBay transaction with the tracking tied to it. Knowing that tracking expires before PayPal & CC window does... and knowing that even though postage was paid for through PayPal and tracking is uploaded to that transaction, they don't store the info (though they should)... why would I not take the time to do a couple of screenshots? I don't want to put all that work and my funds in jeopardy over something I could protect myself from with a couple of keyboard/mouse clicks.

I do it about once/week. Just screenshot everything from the week and dump it in folders (one for each selling account). I create subfolders to store between 1-3 months of screenshots, depending on volume.

Is most of it a waste of time? Sure, because most buyers are honest. It's insurance, though. If I encounter one of these scammers I would be kicking myself for not taking a minute to do a screen capture of my tracking when I could have.

I would love if USPS stored tracking longer so I didn't feel the need to do this.

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It makes perfectly good sense ... I've actually done screen shots of the delivered package tracking on View Order Details, then expanding the Tracking window to show the complete tracking and delivered status then sending that to the Buyer via Contact Buyer with a nice message.  I did that on a few transactions where I just had a funny feeling.  Using the eBay messaging I know there is record that eBay can see too. 

[*eponymous*]

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@sandypurins wrote:

To be eligible for PayPal seller protection on an unauthorized use claim or chargeback, you need proof of shipment (or delivery) to the buyer's "ship to" address on the PayPal transaction details page.

It sounds like you have that for the first transaction, but not for the second transaction.

The USPS keeps tracking information available online for up to 120 days.  Get a screen shot of that information now, so that you will have it if needed later.

Call PayPal customer support to have them review your USPS online tracking and make a note in the case that you've satisfied the "proof of shipment" requirement.

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No, they do not.  For priority and first-class, tracking is available online for 45 days. USPS changed that at least a year ago.

Tracking for registered mail and signature confirmation is available online for one year.

Tracking is ARCHIVED for 6 months with USPS and can be retrieved and sent by email.

[blackbird*singing]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

Tracking is ARCHIVED for 6 months with USPS and can be retrieved and sent by email.

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@*eponymous*

Lately I've seen several posts where users requested the archived tracking (within 6 mos), but USPS would not provide it. I was starting to think they were not offering that service anymore - and their online request form for it is no longer active.

Have you experienced otherwise?

[barbiebug3]

I know this discussion is a few months old, but wanted to add my experience with a PayPal chargeback for other's benefit.  On Nov. 11, I received a notice from PayPal that a buyer was claiming that they didn't authorize a purchase back in July 2016!  Paypal immediately deducted the $75 from my account.  I immediately got onto eBay to verify my transaction, and found that the buyers had left me positive feedback for the item.  I then went to their feedback page to see if there was any feedback that showed they had pulled this chargeback scam on other sellers.  I didn't find anything indicating that, but I did find my item that they had resold in Sept. and had received positive feedback from their buyer!!!!  I sent screenshots of all the relevant transactions, including copies of my mailing receipt, their positive feedback and their sale of the item and the positive feedback they'd received for it.  I waited almost the 30 days Paypal said they had to review the case before calling PayPal.  The agent said that the credit card co. had an additional 70 or 80 days to review the case but that he was going to do a temporary release on my funds, and that the credit card co would have to do the permanent release.  I still haven't received my held funds two days later.  I also emailed the buyer that was claiming chargeback the same day i sent all the verifying documents to paypal and was professional and nice about it, but told them I 'd found where they resold my item, etc.  I have not received any reply from them to this date, almost 30 days later.  I have learned from this experience to keep all verifying documents, as others said above, and to not leave money in my PayPal account!  Even though it's linked to my bank account, they didn't deduct from my bank account for the small overdraft on my paypal account, so I guess they won't go that far until a chargeback is proven.  I can't believe that they won't find in my favor, but one never knows with credit card companies what they will try to pull.  

[mr_lincoln]

I just had one too this week from a Nov. 12 Purchase, 24 days later the Chargeback notification showed up on my PayPal account.  I did a screen shot of both eBay and PayPal delivery confirmation pages and sent them to PayPal via their Resolution Center.  I next messaged the Buyer to let them know I was aware of the Chargeback being processed and also explained (because of thier low FB count) that the listing had a 100% Refund on it as well as 30 Day Return Policy and since I had not heard anything I just wanted to get in touch.

I spoke to PayPal and they were pleased with the screen shots and put the $$ back in my account.  Next I got a message from the Buyer, here their credit card associated with their PayPal account had been used for Fraudulent Purchases so the card company put all purchases on hold until the confirmed each one with the Buyer.  So it worked out and was resolved very quickly.  What I learned was not to panic, take it a step at a time, communicate with all parties and see where things shake out.

[barbiebug3]

My chargeback case (see above comment) was eventually resolved, in my favor, but I had to wait over 30 days to get my money back from PayPal and as I said above, PayPal said that the credit card company had an additional several months to resolve it on their end and I still have a notice on my PayPal account that "There's a problem, click here to resolve" which I guess is because the credit card company still hasn't settled.  PayPal found me blameless and approved me for their seller protection.  

I checked and found that the buyer account that filed the chargeback is no longer an active eBay member - under that ID, anyway.  

The whole thing was very frustrating and mysterious - I mean the buyers had resold my item on eBay.  How did they think they were going to get away with claiming they didn't authorize the purchase?   LOL!  Life is funny, sometimes, and I did learn some good lessons from it.