Long term member with a noobie-ish question about returns.

[theofficefan4life]

I've been buying and selling for a number of years now. I sell mostly low dollar items and the handful of bad apple buyers who have claimed SNAD I deemed not worth the hassle of them return the item and thus refunded them and promptly added them to my blocked bidders list.

But there are a few high value items I want to list where there is always the chance of a buyer return request.

Is it better to list those items with "no returns allowed" (even though I am fully aware that anyone can get away with a SNAD regardless? Or are there more advantages to pre-emptively setting those high value items to have the 30-day returns allowed (requiring buyer to pay return shipping)?

Also, I am probably one of the last few who does not print pre-paid shipping labels. I have zero interest in doing that. I prefer to keep my eBay selling as a hobby and not a business. I still hand-write shipping to addresses and wait in line at the local post office to mail my packages in person. So if and when the inevitable return request happens on an expensive item, how does it work when a buyer wants to print a shipping label to send the item back to me? Do I need to list in my ad the exact dimensions of the box I'm shipping and the exact weight so if they do initiate a return then the returns algorithm will go into my ad and see the dimensions and weight of my package to determine how much the buyer will pay to return the package? Any help is appreciated!

[jennzet-0]

If it were me I would accept returns.  No returns is not going to stop a determined buyer from returning something.  They will just lie and maybe damage your item before returning it.

As far as returning an item, buyers like the convenience of getting a return label, printing it, putting it back on the box and shipping it back.  Also if it is SNAD you are responsible to pay for return shipping, so how would you get that money to them so they can pay for postage to send it back?

[theofficefan4life]

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 Also if it is SNAD you are responsible to pay for return shipping, so how would you get that money to them so they can pay for postage to send it back?

First thanks for your response. When I list an item allowing 30-day returns, eBay gives the option of who pays for return postage: buyer or seller. So if I select that the BUYER pays return shipping, doesn't that mean they foot the bill to return the item?

[fern*wood]

You are responsible for the return shipping cost for all SNADs.  That has nothing to do with your return policy.

[sharingtheland]

officefan - I would offer returns; you're going to have to, anyway, and I assume some people sort by that ?  I don't know what your higher priced items are but if I'm looking at clothing, as one example, I back right out of a no returns listing.  

Wow, you've given me an idea after looking at your listings.  I'm in the middle of a cull project, fighting the Hoarder Husband every step of the way, and just saw your listings for book lots.  He's had 5+ years to read all of the John Sandfords I have and/or Robert Parkers and hasn't done it.  They're gone !  (I would never part with Daniel Silva.)

I was cleaning off a huge bookcase/display thingy in a bedroom where new closet fixins' are going to be installed this week and who knew that's where he had stuck some of his many, many coffee table books he has never even cracked open.  One quick check and I found MCM furniture books from the 70's and another watch book that is selling for around $250.  GONE.  Well, I mean, hopefully GONE by someone sending me money ...

Okay, back to work now.

[glgenterprise]

The no returns rarely discourages the determined buyer. I get very, very few remorse returns and I allow 30 day returns on everything.

I guess I don't understand the reasoning behind not printing shipping labels at home. Just printing the labels at home does not make it a business. You're giving up at minimum the USPS online shipping price savings, and potentially slightly higher discount through eBay.

I print everything at home, but still take everything to the post office and get a drop-off receipt.

If you're determined to continue to pay retail counter prices, I believe that eBay would take your listed weight and dimensions to issue a return label.

ETA - if you don't want to offer free returns, you need to select "buyer pays" under the returns option. You'd still be responsible for the return shipping on a SNAD return.

[jennzet-0]

Buyer pays if it is remorse.

You pay if buyer claims it is not as described.

[moo*cow*corner · Accepted solution]

I do accept returns, with the buyer paying return shipping for remorse returns. Most buyers are awesome, and I get very few returns. Additionally, many, many buyers will automatically bypass any listing that states the seller does not take returns.

For SNAD returns, the seller is obligated to pay return shipping.

For most sellers, the easiest way to do that is to allow ebay to issue return labels for SNAD returns. When listing, input the dimensions and weight of the box, and ebay will use that data to calculate postage and issue a return label. The cost for the label will  be put on your monthly invoice if used. If it's not used, no charges added.

I do believe that ebay is now offering buyer-paid return labels. I'm thinking they'd use the same data, and the buyer pays through Paypal to ebay directly. If I'm wrong about this, someone will be along shortly to correct me.

[theofficefan4life]

ETA - if you don't want to offer free returns, you need to select "buyer pays" under the returns option. You'd still be responsible for the return shipping on a SNAD return.

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I don't understand why eBay allows a seller to select "buyer" to pay return shipping, when I am getting responses like the above that the seller still has to pay the cost of return shipping. 

So then do I understand correctly, that if I sell an item with 30-day returns allowed, and a buyer wants to return, I pay the return shipping cost NO MATTER WHAT? So if it costs $50 to ship something, I'll owe another $50 for the buyer to ship it back???

[theofficefan4life]

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@jennzet-0 wrote:

Buyer pays if it is remorse.

You pay if buyer claims it is not as described.

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Okay, it makes sense to me know, thank you for that clarification.

[theofficefan4life]

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@moo*cow*corner wrote:

I do accept returns, with the buyer paying return shipping for remorse returns. Most buyers are awesome, and I get very few returns. Additionally, many, many buyers will automatically bypass any listing that states the seller does not take returns.

For SNAD returns, the seller is obligated to pay return shipping.

For most sellers, the easiest way to do that is to allow ebay to issue return labels for SNAD returns. When listing, input the dimensions and weight of the box, and ebay will use that data to calculate postage and issue a return label. The cost for the label will  be put on your monthly invoice if used. If it's not used, no charges added.

I do believe that ebay is now offering buyer-paid return labels. I'm thinking they'd use the same data, and the buyer pays through Paypal to ebay directly. If I'm wrong about this, someone will be along shortly to correct me.

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Your response, and everyone elses has answered my questions! Thanks to those who have chimed in!

[myescape]

How does using prepaid labels label you as a business seller rather than a hobby seller?Anyone can use pp prepaid labels to mail anything(gifts etc)to anyone.

Btw No matter what,when you sell you are acting as a business

[glgenterprise]

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@theofficefan4life wrote:

ETA - if you don't want to offer free returns, you need to select "buyer pays" under the returns option. You'd still be responsible for the return shipping on a SNAD return.

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I don't understand why eBay allows a seller to select "buyer" to pay return shipping, when I am getting responses like the above that the seller still has to pay the cost of return shipping. 

So then do I understand correctly, that if I sell an item with 30-day returns allowed, and a buyer wants to return, I pay the return shipping cost NO MATTER WHAT? So if it costs $50 to ship something, I'll owe another $50 for the buyer to ship it back???

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There are several scenarios when it comes to returns and who pays for for the return shipping.

1. Seller DOES NOT accept returns. In this scenario buyer is still protected by SNAD. There is no way to stop these types of returns and the seller will always pay for the return shipping.

2. Seller DOES accept returns for any reason. Seller chooses "Buyer Pays", but that is ONLY good for buyer remorse i.e. they get it and it is exactly as described, but they buyer just decides they don't want it. If the buyer claims SNAD, seller still pays for the return.

3. Seller DOES accept returns for any reasons. Seller chooses "Seller Pays". In this case the seller pays for the return shipping regardless of why they are returning the purchase.

Bottom line is that you've got to have a really honest buyer to not get dinged for shipping in both directions.  eBay's response to this ongoing issue is "that's the cost of doing business and everyone gets occasional bad buyers and losses"

[duncanvr]

I also still hand-write shipping to addresses on envelopes and mail in the post box with stamps I buy in advance from the post office.. So far I had no returms but without printing a label you would have to ask the buyer to return it, trust they will and refund them. However as the other poster here stated you're going to have to pay the return shipping. I purposively stay away from heavy items in case of returns. If your listing expensive ones I would still use 30 or 60 day returns as either way buyer has 180 days with PayPal. I'd probably do 1 or 2 expensive ones at a time to see how they go. Hopefully all successful sales.

[glgenterprise]

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@theofficefan4life wrote:

ETA - if you don't want to offer free returns, you need to select "buyer pays" under the returns option. You'd still be responsible for the return shipping on a SNAD return.

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I don't understand why eBay allows a seller to select "buyer" to pay return shipping, when I am getting responses like the above that the seller still has to pay the cost of return shipping. 

So then do I understand correctly, that if I sell an item with 30-day returns allowed, and a buyer wants to return, I pay the return shipping cost NO MATTER WHAT? So if it costs $50 to ship something, I'll owe another $50 for the buyer to ship it back???

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Sorry if I wasn't clear - if you select "buyer pays" that means if the buyer just wants to return the item - i.e. they just don't like it or need it once they get it - they're responsible for the return shipping costs. It doesn't get you out of paying for the return if the buyer claims there is something wrong with the item - i.e. SNAD.

eBay has been pushing "free returns" for years now. That is the "seller pays" option under returns that is what happens if the buyer wants to return it "just because". Unless you've got a big profit margin in your items, you probably don't want to do this - one expensive return can kill your income.