eBay

holubko · ‎06-07-2018

I sell an item. Get message from buyer that something is wrong with item. Tell buyer to request refund and send item back. Then nothing happens.

So there are buyers out there that probably send a "something is wrong" note for every item that they buy. Hoping that sometimes they will just get a full refund, and get the item for free.

I'm sure that Ebay can scan their data for buyers that actually file returns, and suspend those that file too many and abuse the system.

But does Ebay scan their messaging system for buyers that keep sending out these type of notes, just fishing for refunds ?

castlemagicmemories · ‎06-07-2018

"As in they are stated as 'very good conditon', then arrive with bite marks, serious scuffing, and very dirty (heavy smoke smell that wasn't advertised, and occasionally heavy pet hair). What is their defense: "well, it's vintage & used". ??? Vintage does NOT mean 'damaged', it denotes an age, not condition. "

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I know what you mean. I would put that down to just wanting to sell it and hoping the buyer won't protest, just to get the sale. Take a picture, slap up the listing, and I'm out of here.

I've seen listings where the item was called mint. The doll looked like it was in a tug of war with a dog and the dog won. Very damaged.

thallidguy · ‎06-07-2018

@holubko wrote:
I sell an item. Get message from buyer that something is wrong with item. Tell buyer to request refund and send item back. Then nothing happens.
So there are buyers out there that probably send a "something is wrong" note for every item that they buy. Hoping that sometimes they will just get a full refund, and get the item for free.
I'm sure that Ebay can scan their data for buyers that actually file returns, and suspend those that file too many and abuse the system.
But does Ebay scan their messaging system for buyers that keep sending out these type of notes, just fishing for refunds ?

Looking at your current listings, I'm not seeing anything that looks like scammer bait.

I do see a lot of second-hand, one-off, slightly used or new (other) items for which there could be minor concerns about the condition of the item. Maybe they thought they were getting something in slightly better condition, or what not. People don't always read your condition description, or they just read into it what they want to read into it.

But when you tell them, "Sorry you're not happy. Return it and I'll refund you," they start to think whether it's worth the trouble over a minor blemish in a $15 item. Then they decide, "Meh. I'll live with it."

castlemagicmemories · ‎06-07-2018

@tamaralea wrote:
They shouldn't have to settle if it isn't in the condition they expected. THEY SHOULD SEND IT BACK. Most packaging is re-useable. I've turned poly mailers inside out and re-used them. Yes, they would have to find some tape and they might have to print a mailing label. Most of us ship USPS, which is easy. You don't even have to go to a post office.

I believe there are sellers refunding, without official returns, because they believe they will get a defect, as was the case with the old system. And now it might start happening again, so you'll see more of it.

Actually they should get the item in the condition specified, that would make all of this a moot point. Cause and effect. Buyer shouldn't/wouldn't have to return if the listing is accurate and complete.

Now I know some buyers don't read descriptions, but given the high incidence of SNADs as evidenced by other SELLERS, it seems that the issue is...the high incidence of true SNADs.

gew6463 · ‎06-07-2018

The sad thing (besides the obvious inconvenience) is that giving a thorough description, then following through with product that matches, is a great way to get repeat customers. Especially in vintage collectibles (be it play food, toys, dolls, ect). Buyers feel they can trust you as a seller, and honestly it is my return customers that are helping the present slow traffic time to be more bearable. I even have buyers who email and say "when you come across such & such, give me a heads-up before you list it". I am always happy to do that. But like you said, maybe some sellers are just looking to unload these items.

southern*sweet*tea · ‎06-07-2018

@gew6463 wrote:
This is so true, and I am so happy every time you bring it up on these threads where sellers jump to the 'scammer' conclusion. I buy a large amount of vintage play food (to fill out sets) on Ebay, and I would say that 40% (or more) come 'not as described'. As in they are stated as 'very good conditon', then arrive with bite marks, serious scuffing, and very dirty (heavy smoke smell that wasn't advertised, and occasionally heavy pet hair). What is their defense: "well, it's vintage & used". ??? Vintage does NOT mean 'damaged', it denotes an age, not condition. I don't expect shiny new, but I have thrown some of this stuff straight into the trash. Also, the old "pictures are the BEST description" (and barely any description) defense. Again, NOT true. Pictures are not able to catch every little angle, or I certainly would not have bought something with a bite out of it (which you didn't take a picture of, OR mention in description). As a buyer who also sells, I was horiffied to find so many of my fellow sellers use these tactics. Don't even get me started on packing for shipping. Example: the 3 Rare collectible new-in-box sets I got this week. The seller wrapped ONLY in newspaper, so they banged around and ALL 3 came heavily damaged. Yet they are an experienced seller. And THERE my friends, to be fair, is where some of the buyers have gone. ALL it takes is one bad experience, and they may not buy again. And they will never know that YOU or I would never give service like that. But we may never get the chance to prove that. And I rarely return these items, because as mentioned, many sellers are BRUTAL when you mention they misrepresented their item.

'

I would give you a million kudos if I could!

I don't know what has happened in the last two or three years, but seller quality has slid downhill so far it's dropped off the map. Up until then I had never, ever had a bad sale, now it's like a roulette wheel...will I get what I ordered in decent condition? Will I get it at all?

Books described in good condition that have pages missing, books with mildew, books mailed in manilla envelopes with no protection that come all dinged up, a TRS seller who "forgot" to mail my item then bit my butt off when I asked if it had been shipped two weeks after I bought it, sellers canceling using the buyer requested option when I did not cancel...But as a buyer if I have a problem I'm automatically a scammer.

Yeah, really makes me want to buy here.

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.

We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell

mr_lincoln · ‎06-07-2018

@holubko

@holubko wrote:
Thank you - in these cases, I message back the buyer, asking them to request a return. But then the buyer goes away - there is no follow up.
(And I don't mind accepting returns - what I wish is for Ebay to find a way to scour their messages for buyers that seem to be fishing for refunds).

That would be a little bit of a problem because eBay's suggested policy in the Help pages is for the "Trading Partners" (their term) to communicate to resolve issues. Lets say a Buyer responds to you with some proof there is an issue and either asks for a partial refund or you offer a partial refund. Once Buyer and Seller agree and the issue is resolved without the need for an official claim then everybody goes about their business. There is no way I would even want eBay trying to write code for bots to try and ferret out possible "fishing for a refund" messages from Buyers.

I do the same thing that you do, advise them to process an official return request in the Resolution Center or ask for pics if its an alleged damage message and then go from there. Returns seem to go in spirts. I will get a few and then go periods without any issues.

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - eBay Community Mentor

castlemagicmemories · ‎06-07-2018

I know there are outstanding sellers on here, people of integrity who accept responsibility for their error. I applaud and appreciate them!

You sound like an outstanding seller. That is the kind that buyers will come back to. But sadly not everyone is a person of integrity.

I am truly sorry that you have had similar experiences. But this very high incidence of true SNADs, (you said 40% or more, my last four purchases had three true SNADs, that is 75%) in and off itself is a reason why sales could be down, even without considering the barrage of hostile emails that may ensue as an intimidation tactic.

And you can do all you can to vet the listing and the seller, do all your buyer's due diligence, but as many only leave negatives for truly egregious behavior, their feedback may hold no clue as to the hostility and abusive behavior you will be subjected to.

As you said, sellers can be BRUTAL when you point out the item does not match their description.

castlemagicmemories · ‎06-07-2018

@southern*sweet*tea wrote:
@gew6463 wrote:
This is so true, and I am so happy every time you bring it up on these threads where sellers jump to the 'scammer' conclusion. I buy a large amount of vintage play food (to fill out sets) on Ebay, and I would say that 40% (or more) come 'not as described'. As in they are stated as 'very good conditon', then arrive with bite marks, serious scuffing, and very dirty (heavy smoke smell that wasn't advertised, and occasionally heavy pet hair). What is their defense: "well, it's vintage & used". ??? Vintage does NOT mean 'damaged', it denotes an age, not condition. I don't expect shiny new, but I have thrown some of this stuff straight into the trash. Also, the old "pictures are the BEST description" (and barely any description) defense. Again, NOT true. Pictures are not able to catch every little angle, or I certainly would not have bought something with a bite out of it (which you didn't take a picture of, OR mention in description). As a buyer who also sells, I was horiffied to find so many of my fellow sellers use these tactics. Don't even get me started on packing for shipping. Example: the 3 Rare collectible new-in-box sets I got this week. The seller wrapped ONLY in newspaper, so they banged around and ALL 3 came heavily damaged. Yet they are an experienced seller. And THERE my friends, to be fair, is where some of the buyers have gone. ALL it takes is one bad experience, and they may not buy again. And they will never know that YOU or I would never give service like that. But we may never get the chance to prove that. And I rarely return these items, because as mentioned, many sellers are BRUTAL when you mention they misrepresented their item.

'
I would give you a million kudos if I could!

I don't know what has happened in the last two or three years, but seller quality has slid downhill so far it's dropped off the map. Up until then I had never, ever had a bad sale, now it's like a roulette wheel...will I get what I ordered in decent condition? Will I get it at all?

Books described in good condition that have pages missing, books with mildew, books mailed in manilla envelopes with no protection that come all dinged up, a TRS seller who "forgot" to mail my item then bit my butt off when I asked if it had been shipped two weeks after I bought it, sellers canceling using the buyer requested option when I did not cancel...But as a buyer if I have a problem I'm automatically a scammer.

Yeah, really makes me want to buy here.

Wish I could give you a truckload of helpfuls for that post, Sweet Tea!

gew6463 · ‎06-07-2018

That is an interesting point. I started here as a buyer, 15 years ago. I don't remember all of those early transactions, but I am quite sure that I would not have started selling (or even continuing to buy) if I encountered the ratio I mentioned above (about 40% of my recent bought items 'not as described). It really is sad. And I hate to leave negs. As long as a seller will work with me (even if it is their mistake) I will work with them. But some just do not care, and have no trouble making that clear.

retrose1 · ‎06-07-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@retrose1 wrote:
@tamaralea wrote:
They shouldn't have to settle if it isn't in the condition they expected.
T^hat right there is 90% of the problem with returns on ebay. The buyers get exactly what they bought - but since they didn't bother to actually read the listing - the item isn't what they expected. And thanks to ebay, that is the sellers fault and the seller should be out money because of it.

Any buyer who makes a claim about a problem and doesn't follow through if told to return is a scammer. They steal the sellers time and boost their stress level. And any buyer that costs the seller money for no good reason in a return is a scammer.
With all due respect, every buyer who doesn't return is NOT a scammer.
They bought the item because they wanted it. Should they be forced to give it up because the description was inaccurate and the item is SNAD? Yes, many seem to think so. But despite the fact they did not get what they paid for, many settle because they either don't want to give up the item, they don't want the hassle of a return, or the ensuing seller hostility that can show in a barrage of messages, or they decide to settle, again, despite the fact that item was not in the condition specified (even if the damage may be dimly seen in the pictures, seller questioned, but says the item is fine without looking at the item)

Here is a thread by many well known and knowledgeable posters who are mostly SELLERS and the very high percentage of legitimate SNADS that they received and the abusive, hostile customer service~attempts to intimidate the buyer into abandoning a legitimate return.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/I-m-beginning-to-see-what-buyers-contend-with/m-p/27854770

The incidence of true SNADs is far higher than realized.

Of my last four purchases, three were not as described. I settled. Should I have to? No. It happens. These were unique items that would be hard to find, and I know buying on Ebay must be taken with a great deal of tolerance and a huge grain of salt.

I am not a scammer, nor is every buyer a scammer.

Did you even read what you quoted?

In the last few cases where the buyer has claimed a 'problem' - on the items I got back there was no problem. The item was as described in the listing and the buyer just took advantage of ebay's free returns on something that didn't work out the way they wanted. And many of the ones I insist they file a case and return the item - they message back that they made a mistake and it's another seller that is the problem. Uh-huh, that's got scam written all over it.

I have one right now that insisted that I ship by a certain date because they needed to wear it at a wedding. Over a week after they got it, but the day after the event they needed it for, they are claiming it didn't fit. They didn't say anything for a week when they got it and only after they don't need it anymore they want to send it back for a refund.

The only reason most buyers - in my experience- have problems is not because the seller did anything wrong. And if posters have so many problems when they do buy, they why do they continue to buy on ebay - when they insist that buyers leave ebay when in most cases they get a seller that sends out snad merchandise.

(*Bleep*)

castlemagicmemories · ‎06-07-2018

Yes, of course I read what I quoted~it backed up what I posted.

I understand that you are saying buyers got what they were supposed to get.

My point is these sellers with true SNADs also THOUGHT the buyer got what they were supposed to get; but that thread and other's experiences and posts show that was NOT the case.

I'm glad you threw in "in your experience". Your experience is not the norm, however.

To answer why do buyers continue to buy when it is said they leave Ebay after these experiences, as that thread shows, many of these are long time users who have been around for decades, and most are sellers. Inevitably, they are going to buy where they sell. BUT as that thread also shows, some have decided not to buy here anymore because of that, and some who still do, buy with trepidation because they know that there is a VERY good chance they won't get what they bought. The point is, these people have a loyalty to the site, if only because they HAVE been here a long time, and they are tolerant. BUT new buyers may be more practical and far less tolerant; just a few SNADs, a few hostile, every buyer is a scammer sellers (NOT every buyer is a scammer), and there is a very good chance they won't be back. Sales are down. My best friend tells me, you will never learn. Sellers won the battle, but lost the war.

rolenboy01 · ‎06-07-2018

@jason_incognito wrote:
I'm just amazed at sellers who know nothing about what they're selling........ sellers that buy used dvds at goodwill....... Sellers that didn't test their stuff before sending it, and if they did don't know what to look for..... jumping strait to calling the buyer a scammer when the buyer tries to watch the dvd and it doesn't work.

Sellers that never had the power cord getting upset when their buyer tells them the 50cent garage sale find is a dud and they want their $400 back that they paid for it.....

Do you really think these mega media sellers here sit around watching every DVD and Blu-Ray and listening to ever CD etc?

castlemagicmemories · ‎06-07-2018

That would be unrealistic.

yuzuha · ‎06-07-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
IMO, no. Many just don't want to deal with the hassle of returning something.

Many buyers just want their widget.

Not every buyer is a scammer.

And regarding my previous post, three of my last four purchases came not as described~no cases filed, I can live with it. BUT the point is should a buyer have to? Should they put in that situation where they have to decide what to do? Or have to weigh a return when their only mistake was to buy at all? It is said, if it is good enough to keep, it is good enough to pay full price for. BUT that does not consider the fact that the buyer did not get the item in the condition that was described and specified.

I agree, and I actually had a situation like that on my end as a seller. I sold a 20+ year old plush doll, and when I went to pull it to pack it, some of the metallic coating on the fabric on one of its little wrist accessories flaked off when I touched it-- no doubt due to sheer age as it had never been played with, just stored in a storage box in a climate-controlled closet for years with nothing on top of it or touching it. I figured the best course of action was to contact the buyer with photos and offer a discount due to the damage. The buyer happily accepted the discount as he did indeed want the item, but with the damage, it wouldn't have been worth the price I had originally charged for it as I had listed it in being near-mint condition. The discount was a compromise that worked for both of us.

castlemagicmemories · ‎06-07-2018

You are a person of integrity and I applaud your character!

You caught a potential SNAD in the making. Some would have just sent it on, told the buyer to return for refund, intimidated the buyer in hopes they would not return, and not cared that the buyer didn't get what they paid for, all while claiming they had a scamming buyer!

And that was just the perfect way to handle it. That buyer is grateful to you for your honesty and how you handled it, and probably showed that in great feedback, and you may even have a return customer.

Rather than the other scenario, where the buyer feels taken, abused, maligned, and doesn't bother to repeat the experience. Ebay loses a buyer, seller won the battle, but lost the war.