eBay

mr_lincoln · ‎12-06-2017

@mr_lincoln wrote:
INR Question

I’ve read a number of threads where a Buyer processes an INR while the package is still in transit as Tracking shows and can be proven by the Seller. An INR should not be allowed if the package is still in transit. Buyers are getting awarded the claim and Refund then the package shows up late (through NO fault of the Seller, just a slow shipment by carrier) so they wind up getting the item FREE … Sellers have absolutely no control over what happens to a package once it is put in the hands of any carrier so why should they be penalized for that?
What is in place to protect the Seller from losing both money and item in this scenario?

@mr_lincoln Thanks for this feedback. Typically a buyer should not be given both the item and a refund -- we do indeed take a look at tracking details, estimated delivery date, and the carrier and service selected. If it's still in transit, we understand that the package should have an adequate amount of time to arrive. There is still always a risk of packages taking longer than the estimated delivery dates -- especially during busy times like the holidays! -- so we'd advise using tracked methods and really you should be covered. I'd also advise using more 'reliable' shipping services (e.g. economy may not be the best during this time of year) if you're worried about the packages taking too long.

@lauren*us Sorry I could not get back to the Chat today to reply ... I appreciate your reply but it doesn't answer the question. The issue is not how an item is shipped other than it has tracking as stated ... it could be a 1 day delivery or 1 month, it does not matter. The issue is the carrier fails to deliver on time so the Buyer can open an INR and get their money back ... then if the item gets delivered (and again, these are real live threads where this has happened) the Buyer keeps the item, does NOT pay for it since they have already been refunded ... so back to the original question ... What is in place to protect the Seller from losing both money and item in this scenario?

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor

imakesugar · ‎12-09-2017

I had a package that was sent to me but delivered One town north of me or 7 miles away. I did Notify the Seller not to worry as the package was ONE town away and I should get it in a few days. I waited 3 days. Nothing...Finally, I called MY Postmaster and told them the package was stuck in Shelly Mn. and why hasn't it been transferred to Halstad?

The Post Master said the carrier kept FORGETTING TO BRING THE PACKAGE DOWN TO THEM. (which goes against the tide of regular delivery.) I did get the package according to ALL the rules I could have filed on The last day of the date of delivery and got My money back and received the Package. Instead, I was the one holding the hand of the Seller telling them NOT to worry I knew where it was and I was sure I would get it.

The problem that is NOT being addressed is HOW MANY Buyers know of this flaw and take advantage of it? I have given Sellers Many times the benefit of the doubt and let a past date go by AND NOT FILED A CASE knowing that a DC # is provided and has passed. I have always received the package. However, slow the item is in coming.

ONE time even at My PO I received an item that was NOT MINE>It took me several days to return the item (I don't always open My packages right away) Then I returned the item opened to the PO and the Buyer got the package the next day but they could have filed a notice for all I know...

I don't know much about coding but I would think that it eBay sent out a form letter saying something like this before and after they approve the refund...

first letter: (before Issuing the refund)

Dear Buyer,

We believe that Your package was lost in the mail. We are giving the Seller five extra days to allow for Your package to arrive at Your address. After this time You may escalate the case and receive Your refund. You are given 30 days in which to escalate the case before Your MGB is voided. If the item arrives up to 14 days after You escalate the case and have received Your money back, You will be responsible for returning either the package OR resending the Cost of the item and shipping back to the Seller. At eBay, we believe in ALL fairness that BOTH Sellers and Buyers should be made whole again when a problem like this occurs.

If You no longer want the item do Not open the package and send it back as REFUSED. Got to the resolution Center and Mark the item as refused so Seller will know the package is on it's way back to them. We appreciate Your business Thank You, eBay.

The second Message after the Buyer has escalated the case and been refunded:

Dear Buyer,

Seller has provided a refund for Your Item Not Received case #XXXXX. At eBay, we have faith in OUR Sellers to ship and provide accurate delivery Confirmation numbers on the items they send out. We are sorry that Your item has been lost in the mail. The Seller has issued a refund for this package. IF the package does show delivery with-in 14 days after this case is closed. We will notify You to resend the Seller the amount of the purchase and shipping. The items in question will be added again to the Resolution Center and You can repay from there.

If You no longer want the package (for instance You reordered the item(s) in question.) Then You can Refuse the package and notify the Seller through OUR RESOLUTION CENTER that You refused the package and it is on the way back to them. To refuse a package according to USPS it MUST NOT BE OPENED.If there are items in the package The You still want You can refuse the whole package and ask the Seller to write a new listing for You for the items Yo do want and then You can pay for only what You want. Thank You, Your friendly eBay staff.

That still leaves some things that could cause hang-ups. Maybe we can discuss the hang-ups and figure out ways to make it safer and fair to both Sellers and buyers.

Many Buyers THINK that the USPS code says they MAY KEEP anything that is sent to them. They then think they can just KEEP the items in question. (Even after being paid back for the items.) The code, however, Is referring to unsolicited Items that are sent out by companies to get You to buy something. An example of this would be surveys that send a dollar in the mail wanting You to do their survey. YOU CAN KEEP THESE ITEMS. pam

.usps.com texton Customer Service question.

trinton@ebay...Do You keep statistics on Buyers who are taking advantage of this flaw? I know someone could write something Like I am suggesting into code. It will, in fact, make more money for eBay. I also do think that Most people are honest and want to do the right thing but don't know how. I think eBay is doing many things to build up trust in the community. IF a buyer knows and is assured that they are going to get what they ordered. (first message)This could be added to a flow so that Buyers have a way to come back and pay. Oh well, maybe I am a Dreamer. I would like to see eBay rise up to its former glory! pam

secretsquirrelisnowhere · ‎12-09-2017

Ebay's former glory days? Do you mean the days where the seller was always right and the buyers were taken advantage of regularly? Ebay nearly went out of business with that business model.

lookng2015 · ‎12-09-2017

@sharingtheland wrote:
Responding in general, not to jen...

I thought yesterday's chat was one of the more discouraging ones I've seen, and that's saying a lot.

The return "team" either didn't read the questions and therefore answers were not applicable, didn't understand the questions, never heard of the situations asked about, or kind of threw out policies *I'd* never heard of. I'd have to reread the thing to pull examples.

Anyway, it was not an uplifting, helpful chat. jmo

Sounds like the usual to me = )

"If a product doesn't sell, raise the price" - Reese Palley
"If it sold FAST, it was priced too low" - also Reese Palley

lookng2015 · ‎12-09-2017

brian@ebay

What about an INR where the tracking shows as "unable to forward" as buyer gave an old address? Should the buyer have to pay for the original shipping?

"If a product doesn't sell, raise the price" - Reese Palley
"If it sold FAST, it was priced too low" - also Reese Palley

chrysylys · ‎12-09-2017

Once a package is considered lost or late to the point where an investigation with a carrier is warranted, all claims here and at PP should be suspended pending the outcome. As long as there is some form of progress in tracking (not just label created or acceptance, but actual progress) a claim should not be able to be opened here for about 30 days.

As a buyer waiting for something I might hate that, but once an item is shown to be in the carrier system, delays or loss can't be blamed on the seller.

Forget keeping up with the Joneses. Be the Finklegrubers!
OK kids, time to get the Dodge loaded up again. I hear 'Poppy's By the Tree' calling. This trip might be a long one too.

d-k_treasures · ‎12-09-2017

@secretsquirrelisnowhere wrote:
Ebay's former glory days? Do you mean the days where the seller was always right and the buyers were taken advantage of regularly? Ebay nearly went out of business with that business model.

I bought a lot during the early days and never had a problem.

Maybe because I actually read every listing and also vetted the sellers, and never felt 'entitled' to moan and cry because something didn't come in the mail the day before I won the auction or because the seller wouldn't give me half off because they missed one tiny scratch on the bottom of something.

_____________________________
"Nothing is obvious to the oblivious"

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎12-09-2017

@d-k_treasures wrote:
@secretsquirrelisnowhere wrote:
Ebay's former glory days? Do you mean the days where the seller was always right and the buyers were taken advantage of regularly? Ebay nearly went out of business with that business model.
I bought a lot during the early days and never had a problem.

Maybe because I actually read every listing and also vetted the sellers, and never felt 'entitled' to moan and cry because something didn't come in the mail the day before I won the auction or because the seller wouldn't give me half off because they missed one tiny scratch on the bottom of something.

There was always Paypal protection since about....2008? I used it on a big ticket item. Ebay never needed to get in the game of refunds.

mr_lincoln · ‎12-09-2017

@nawlinsron2

@nawlinsron2 wrote:
In short, ebay wants your money, but not your business.
Your business, your problem.

It may be more accurate that they want the Buyer to get either their money back, the item or both so Fees get paid ...

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor

nawlinsron2 · ‎12-09-2017

More to the point...the seller's business.
In the history of ebay, a buyer has not paid a nickel directly to ebay.

imakesugar · ‎12-09-2017

I started buying in 2010. So, I am one of the late arrivals to eBay. I did pay by check, cash and Money orders. During that whole time, I had ONE ORDER, I did not receive.

In the day... We did not have whiners who cried about everything wanting pristine items with dollar store prices. No one tried to get partial refunds for unseen flaws. I don't think people were sending bricks for returns either. If I received something I was not pleased with or didn't want I would just relist it.

I noticed the most problems when stores were dumped into core searches. The next problem was when eBay quit charging for ALL listings. People who had to pay for listings generally picked things that would sell well. The other problem was when eBay started being buyer excentric and Sellers quit listing high priced items to prevent HIGH looses.

There is not much that beats winning a close bid with a nickel. Sometimes the process of making something better makes it so complicated that it actually ends up worse. pam

mr_lincoln · ‎12-09-2017

@imakesugar That was really a good synopsis of how some of the changes affected buying and selling on eBay. I think the point on Sellers getting away from high dollar items to sell because they equate to high dollar losses is an important point. The more cash that flows the better everyone on the receiving end is ... once the higher dollars stop flowing it times to squeeze the turnip ...

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor

bigchief2472000 · ‎12-09-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
@chrysylys wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

Not all item not received requests or return requests are automated, as this is only applicable in a small portion of scenarios. One example would be an item not received request where no tracking has been provided and no response has been recorded from the seller to the request. Upon escalation from the buyer, this would likely be automatically closed for the buyer as the seller has not given us reason to believe the item is in transit, delivered or that they have otherwise been working on a resolution. Additionally, protections are put in place to minimize errors - automation would typically not occur if the seller escalated, for example. There are numerous other situations that would qualify for automatic decisions, and countless filters in place to instead route the case decision to one of our agents.
If a package vanishes from the carrier system (tracking stops, is suspended or delyayed) why would 'you' EVER allow a claim to be closed against the seller prior to the carrier's investigation and claim window? I can see allowing a claim to be opened, but it should NEVER be closed prior to the carrier's determination.
This is a great question, @chrysylys. Since the buyer is not contracting with the courier directly, a carrier investigation is only for the seller's protection. A buyer purchased the item from the seller, and it would be the seller (not the carrier) that would be responsible for resolving the buyer's concerns. The shipping service the seller chooses to use falls under their responsibility, as they are entrusting the shipment with this courier. If damage occurs or the package is lost, the seller needs to resolve this for the buyer with a replacement or a refund. They can seek reimbursement from the courier if they elected to purchase insurance, but we would not expect a buyer to wait for this investigation to complete before receiving a resolution.

The seller is fulfilling a request that a buyer made, which is to contract with a courier in order to get a package delivered to them. It doesn't matter which courier is used, they all have timeframes for processing any investigations into lost or delayed packages. If a buyer isn't willing to wait out an investigation for a lost or delayed package, they should not be requesting to have anything shipped to them. It may be inconvenient for a buyer to have money tied up while the investigation is processed, but it's more than just inconvenient for the seller if the buyer's money is refunded and then the courier ends up delivering the package.

bigchief2472000 · ‎12-09-2017

On a side note, I sent a package on Nov. 27th that still isn't showing as delivered, and hasn't had a tracking update since Dec. 4th. Fortunately for me, I was dealing with an honest buyer. When I contacted them to apologize for the delay and inform them that I would contact the post office to inquire about the package, the buyer told me that they had already received the package and left me positive feedback.

imakesugar · ‎12-10-2017

@imakesugar wrote:
I had a package that was sent to me but delivered One town north of me or 7 miles away. I did Notify the Seller not to worry as the package was ONE town away and I should get it in a few days. I waited 3 days. Nothing...Finally, I called MY Postmaster and told them the package was stuck in Shelly Mn. and why hasn't it been transferred to Halstad?

The Post Master said the carrier kept FORGETTING TO BRING THE PACKAGE DOWN TO THEM. (which goes against the tide of regular delivery.) I did get the package according to ALL the rules I could have filed on The last day of the date of delivery and got My money back and received the Package. Instead, I was the one holding the hand of the Seller telling them NOT to worry I knew where it was and I was sure I would get it.

The problem that is NOT being addressed is HOW MANY Buyers know of this flaw and take advantage of it? I have given Sellers Many times the benefit of the doubt and let a past date go by AND NOT FILED A CASE knowing that a DC # is provided and has passed. I have always received the package. However, slow the item is in coming.

ONE time even at My PO I received an item that was NOT MINE>It took me several days to return the item (I don't always open My packages right away) Then I returned the item opened to the PO and the Buyer got the package the next day but they could have filed a notice for all I know...

I don't know much about coding but I would think that it eBay sent out a form letter saying something like this before and after they approve the refund...

first letter: (before Issuing the refund)

Dear Buyer,
We believe that Your package was lost in the mail. We are giving the Seller five extra days to allow for Your package to arrive at Your address. After this time You may escalate the case and receive Your refund. You are given 30 days in which to escalate the case before Your MGB is voided. If the item arrives up to 14 days after You escalate the case and have received Your money back, You will be responsible for returning either the package OR resending the Cost of the item and shipping back to the Seller. At eBay, we believe in ALL fairness that BOTH Sellers and Buyers should be made whole again when a problem like this occurs.

If You no longer want the item do Not open the package and send it back as REFUSED. Got to the resolution Center and Mark the item as refused so Seller will know the package is on it's way back to them. We appreciate Your business Thank You, eBay.

The second Message after the Buyer has escalated the case and been refunded:

Dear Buyer,
Seller has provided a refund for Your Item Not Received case #XXXXX. At eBay, we have faith in OUR Sellers to ship and provide accurate delivery Confirmation numbers on the items they send out. We are sorry that Your item has been lost in the mail. The Seller has issued a refund for this package. IF the package does show delivery with-in 14 days after this case is closed. We will notify You to resend the Seller the amount of the purchase and shipping. The items in question will be added again to the Resolution Center and You can repay from there.
If You no longer want the package (for instance You reordered the item(s) in question.) Then You can Refuse the package and notify the Seller through OUR RESOLUTION CENTER that You refused the package and it is on the way back to them. To refuse a package according to USPS it MUST NOT BE OPENED.If there are items in the package The You still want You can refuse the whole package and ask the Seller to write a new listing for You for the items Yo do want and then You can pay for only what You want. Thank You, Your friendly eBay staff.

That still leaves some things that could cause hang-ups. Maybe we can discuss the hang-ups and figure out ways to make it safer and fair to both Sellers and buyers.

Many Buyers THINK that the USPS code says they MAY KEEP anything that is sent to them. They then think they can just KEEP the items in question. (Even after being paid back for the items.) The code, however, Is referring to unsolicited Items that are sent out by companies to get You to buy something. An example of this would be surveys that send a dollar in the mail wanting You to do their survey. YOU CAN KEEP THESE ITEMS. pam

.usps.com texton Customer Service question.

trinton@ebay...Do You keep statistics on Buyers who are taking advantage of this flaw? I know someone could write something Like I am suggesting into code. It will, in fact, make more money for eBay. I also do think that Most people are honest and want to do the right thing but don't know how. I think eBay is doing many things to build up trust in the community. IF a buyer knows and is assured that they are going to get what they ordered. (first message)This could be added to a flow so that Buyers have a way to come back and pay. Oh well, maybe I am a Dreamer. I would like to see eBay rise up to its former glory! pam

I really wanted trinton@ebay to see this comments? I don't think I ever do this right!

mr_lincoln · ‎12-10-2017

@imakesugar I am sure he will see it, they've been following this thread. Whether or not he (they) respond depends on their schedule and theywill be back in the office Monday ...

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor