How a buyer scammed me using CC chargeback.

[civicwagonparts]

This was a very rare car bumper, sold for $412 with $164 in shipping. I was in constant communication with the buyer before the sale, 8-10 emails back and forth.
This is my 4th CC Chargeback this year. Never had one in 20yrs of Paypal, now with "Managed Payments", this problem seems way worse.
Buyer waited until the last day to file a claim thru eBay "not working", and buyer just submitted pictures from my original listing. I spoke with a CSR rep, they acknowledged the buyer was using my pictures, and I would be covered if I denied the eBay claim.

Buyer deleted all messages. I still have them in my "sent" folder, but not in "my messages".
I was unable to "report the buyer" as too much time has passed.
I am also unable to retrieve the buyers address where I sent the item. I need it for the law enforcement case, and ebay will not provide me with the address, and again, too much time has passed for me to access it in ebays system.

Buyer then filed a CC Chargeback, stating not as described.
I again spoke with an eBay CSR rep before providing information in the CC chargeback. The CSR rep clearly saw the pictures were from my listing, and that the buyer had deleted messages.

The CC chargeback was decided in the buyers favor, I lost $412, plus $164 to ship the item.
There was no seller protection, only a run-around with eBay.

I can no longer compete on ebay. After fees, returns, CC chargebacks, promoted listings, etc...
I can sell an item for $50 on other platforms and make the same net profit as selling it for $100 on eBay.

The only recourse now is to file a case with Law Enforcement. A huge time-waste which will probably get no results. My attorney is confident he can prove fraud, for about $10k in fees. Buyer has a lengthy criminal record, most recently for shoplifting.

I have learned the hard way.
#1 Rule of selling on eBay. DO NOT SELL ANYTHING YOU CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOSE.

[inhawaii]

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@civicwagonparts wrote:

This is my 4th CC Chargeback this year. Never had one in 20yrs of Paypal, now with "Managed Payments", this problem seems way worse.

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Sorry for your sudden surge of chargebacks but they have nothing to do with paypal vs. managed payments. Just a coincidence. A customer has no way of knowing who is processing your funds (paypal or managed payments) and even of they did, why would one payment processor  make them want to do a chargeback versus another? 

[12345jamesstamps]

Did buyer have recent feedback of purchases and was buyer not a new eBayer? Sorry, but if a buyer hasn't purchased $500. ever would I send my item out? Nope.

And 8-10 emails?...that's also a nope for me. I will accept one email maybe before mailing the item out.

So, actually, eBay can read all emails back and forth between buyer and seller...even in the past....but customer service is just a person to talk to...not a service.

I am assuming this is an item sold long ago..which makes it a little hard to find in sold items and such for a seller. I can understand that.

I actually can recover long purchases sold on my iPhone eBay App but not on my computer. 

Photos for item not as described are just photos...nothing else.

[kensgiftshop]

Why didn't you accept the return when they tried to return it?

[lakefor94]

If you need an address, try running some sales reports that save as a CVS file and you can dump it into excel. They have so many columns with information, the address is probably in there if I remember correctly.

Any platforms you sell on that accept credit cards are subject to disputes.

If you deny a return here or on any other platform that uses a payment processor,  a chargeback dispute is always lurking, just depends on if the buyer executes that option. 

[dhbookds]

I am also unable to retrieve the buyers address where I sent the item.

You should be able to access the address from your report information........have to download it, but you can get the sold info for the the whole year there......including the buyer  address.

[civicwagonparts]

PayPal handled the chargebacks differently.
PayPal is the #1 internet payment processor. Ayden, eBays current processor ranks #7.
I am aware the buyer would not know who the processor is.

[civicwagonparts]

It was clear the buyer was using my pictures in his claim, so I assumed eBay would cover my back.

The description stated a scuff to the paint, the pics showed this. Buyer said its not as described as it has a scuff to the paint, and sent my pic from the listing to show the scuff.
I spoke at length before the purchase, and the buyer was very clear on what they were getting.
Then after good communication, the buyer waited until the last day, then filed the claim without contacting me.

[civicwagonparts]

Buyer has 70 feedback.
We were in good communication before the sale. I mentioned in the messages, the bumper has a scuff to the paint. I noted the scuff in the description and featured it in the pics. Buyer stated "not working - has a scuff to the paint", then submitted pics of the scuff from my listing.
It has now been 4 months since the sale.
This bumper is super-rare, for 88-91 Honda Civic wagons. I have pics of my bumper on the buyers car, so the Law Enforcement case will be easy to prove. Based on his criminal record, the buyer will go to jail and I will never get my money.
eBay as the "Merchant of Record", should be recognizing these cases as fraud, and dealing with Law Enforcement themselves.

[robbie31415]

The pictures don't matter.

Not everyone has a camera.

Your report that too much time had passed is blatantly false. Buyers can't open MBG returns If the window has closed.

You should have accepted the return, but your refusal to led to a chargeback.

[vintagecraze50]

You can never deny these requests for a return and refund on here without risking the chargeback.

[civicwagonparts]

Too much time has passed for me to access the buyers contact information.

It was $165 in return shipping. I spoke with the eBay CSR before I denied the return through eBay, and they could clearly see the pictures and the communication.
My only recourse is Law Enforcement.

I had hoped this would have been covered by "Seller Protection", like with PayPal.
eBay lost a good seller.

Everything happens for a reason. Apr2024 FB and IG are launching an new integrated sales platform with shipping and internalized payments. I am going to focus my time on this for the next couple years and see.
If it had not been for eBays position, I would have not been on the ground floor of this new platform.

[civicwagonparts]

It really a blessing in disguise. I had over 1,000 items staged and ready to list on eBay. Now, I have started looking into my other sales accounts, as I had not been using FB for a while.

Everything happens for a reason.
Apr2024 FB and IG are launching an new integrated sales platform with shipping and internalized payments. I am going to focus my time on this for the next couple years and see.
If it had not been for eBays position on Seller Protection, I would have not been on the ground floor of this new platform.

I have about 400 active listings still on eBay. I have cut all my prices, and ended a lot of my high-dollar items. I will just let these listings die out and keep cutting prices and ending listings.
I sell very rare old car parts. I feel eBay does not appreciate my business, as they feel buyers will just buy from another eBay seller, and eBay will still get the fees.
I am the only one who has most of the parts I list. I have brought lots of new buyers to eBay, just to buy my rare parts.
eBay got the $412 from me, but has now lost $1,000's in future revenue.
Seems like a bad business decision on eBays part.

[retro_entertainment_collectibles]

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@civicwagonparts wrote:

It really a blessing in disguise. I had over 1,000 items staged and ready to list on eBay. Now, I have started looking into my other sales accounts, as I had not been using FB for a while.

Everything happens for a reason.
Apr2024 FB and IG are launching an new integrated sales platform with shipping and internalized payments. I am going to focus my time on this for the next couple years and see.
If it had not been for eBays position on Seller Protection, I would have not been on the ground floor of this new platform.

I have about 400 active listings still on eBay. I have cut all my prices, and ended a lot of my high-dollar items. I will just let these listings die out and keep cutting prices and ending listings.
I sell very rare old car parts. I feel eBay does not appreciate my business, as they feel buyers will just buy from another eBay seller, and eBay will still get the fees.
I am the only one who has most of the parts I list. I have brought lots of new buyers to eBay, just to buy my rare parts.
eBay got the $412 from me, but has now lost $1,000's in future revenue.
Seems like a bad business decision on eBays part.

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Doesn't matter where you care try to sell, consumers are aware of what they can do.  In 2023 retail online is reporting 48 BILLION dollars of losses to consumer fraud online.  It's not eBay, its not Adyen, its not PayPal not any of that.  It remains unclear as to how these matters may be dealt with in the future as Internet Fraud on all sides of many differing forms of fences continues to escalate.  In retail losses are traditionally written off but the numbers online are causing considerable concern and there have been governmental discussions about it.  There has been talk about alternations towards Warrants of Merchantability being specific to online transactions for example and tied into card processing.  This would protect large retailers more yet have the exact opposite effect on pre-owned anything.

Now if you think FB Marketplace any comparator to eBay its not in any way shape of form. Far far more fraud as a percentile happens there than here, I know folks work for Meta.  I know what the company goals are for Marketplace and they are long term not at all about private or third party sellers.  Meta wants to be a commerce provider for retail businesses leveraging their Meta 3D technology into the "Meta Verse" just as for example Amazon is a provider to retail storefronts, Target Merchandise online for example is powered by Amazon.  Meta wants to leverage Facebook Social Media as the driver of the MetaVerse revolutionizing the way consumers shop online from home, TV to be exact.  The current FB Marketplace is a complete money looser for Meta in its present form.

Chargebacks happen and eBay/Adyen buffer the costs of that.  If you had you're own merchant account every chargeback would be costing you a minimum of $50 from word go that is irrecoverable.  You're bank will charge $25 fee to reserve funds, the merchant account provide will assess a $25 processing fee.  If you dispute the chargeback, thats another $25 processing fee.  Depending on the provider every response to consumers repeated replies can cost the merchant of record another $25.

Now what it "appears" governments want to do to address commerce problems online are multifactorial.  In fact I've been invited to a political dinner in a few weeks where some legislative heavy hitters are going to be there.  I spent 15 years in political arena's along with my Ex lady...  Not sure if I care attend or not even though a regional legislator care pay for my dinner at $1250 a plate.  Its my estimate someone wants me building some website(s) as I did state of the art stuff when I was with her even to point the Governor of NYS took notice of the work.  I would like to go to discuss perhaps some of the online commerce matters happening but at these type functions ya' never know.  I'd anticipate being "put off," that is to say, "Sure love discuss it, call the office..."  Like in the past ya' see all these folks hobb nobbin' and I'd be at the bar with the District Attorney as he/she not supposed to be political and we'd just chatter among ourselves.  Meanwhile my Ex be "playing the game" per se.

Anyways...  There is no doubt I mean 0% at this point that legislative mechanisms are going to come into play in as far as Internet Commerce goes.  When is in question, what is in question but I can tell you the top five goals for consumers are:  1.  Protect Consumers in top five areas of problem:  1. Identity, 2. commerce, 3. investment scams, 4. lottery/sweepstakes scams, 5. Employment scams.

For retail and manufactures there's literal plethora of Buzz around and well, see where it goes.

All that said and done there is one thing every seller should remember.  eBay is literally THE ENTITY that HAS and continues to preserve you're rights to sell online like no other.  There are bad sellers, bad buyers which have also existed all the way back in history before electricity was even discovered.  eBay IS the pioneer of third party online commerce and policies here are not mostly of eBay's doing.  They are reactive policies due to bad sellers and bad buyers, its that simple and that complex.

[civicwagonparts · Accepted solution]

This could have been handled under "Seller Protection", and it wasn't. I feel PayPal would have covered an issue like this in the sellers favor. eBay has increased fees and took away protections.

I have been working getting my shops ready on the new Meta platform, unveiling apr2024. Meta and IG are releasing a new integrated sales platform. Its in beta-mode right now, but are letting some sellers setup accounts now.
Internalized payments and shipping. Wide exposure.
Yes, there will still be chargebacks, will see how Meta handles them.

I actually was assigned an account rep thru Meta. I speak with the same English-speaking person every time. Meta is really putting forth the effort to make this platform succeed.
It is a completely new platform. Like any retail investment, losing money out the gate to get their foot in the door.
I am excited for this, and I am going to put all of my efforts into it for a couple years and see.
Again, my parts are very rare. My customers will find me as these parts will no longer be listed on eBay.
I will still keep 250 low-priced items in my eBay store to compare.
Maybe in a couple years I will go back to full-throttle with eBay.

For now, I feel my only recourse is to affect eBays bottom line. Maybe if enough good sellers scale back, eBay will rethink the "Seller Protection" policy.
Great for eBay, you can keep my $412, lie to me and facilitate the fraud by protecting the buyer.
eBay is steeping over dollars to pick up dimes.