How Do I Block International Buyers Using Me to Drop Ship?

[kosmetik.karnival]

Yesterday, I encountered a buyer from another country who is using me to drop ship the purchase to an address within the United States.  Not only am I charged an extra fee for the International transaction, but then he requested, like they ALL do, that no invoice be sent.  

Then, today I sold another item to the same buyer, again requesting that I do not include an invoice.  

Is there any way to block International buyers now with Managed Payments?

Thank you.

[mam98031]

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@teenytrinkets wrote:

Hahahaha.... tooo many sales... hate it when that happens! Lol

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I know!!!!  Sorry I had to say it!!  

[mam98031]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

Put in your listings in a very obvious font that invoices will be included with every purchase. If someone asks for you to remove the invoice, tell them you cannot as it is part of your policy.

Make sure to keep that interaction in your messages. Then report the buyer if they ask for you to remove it.

I've never had an issue with a drop shipper, but this would be my solution.

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Why?  What purpose does it serve?  Why not just don't put an invoice or priced packing slip in the package?  

For myself, I never put a packing slip in my packages.  I put my business card in it, but not a packing slip, priced or unpriced.  Little more expensive this way, but I think it is worth it.

And why care if someone else is using you as their drop shipper?  It is a sale.  It doesn't increase your costs or your labor?  So what is the objection, getting a sale?  What harm is done to the seller?

[espresso_warehouse]

Are you actually asking me to explain to you why drop shippers ask for invoices to be taken out?

I attempted to answer to OP's question. Something you are not doing.

[go-bad-chicken]

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@teenytrinkets wrote:

Ah, that sounds the same as when I sell to my US buyers. It's a bit of a burn to pay more (we also have to pay fees for the US taxes that ebay funnels through our accounts, ughhh!), but great to expand your sales market. It's win, win in the end! 🙂

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This assumes that every seller or every selling account wants to ship to international destinations.

I have 2 selleing accounts where I accept international sales. 

But i have 2 other accounts whose products are not allowed in many countries, and they can end up causing all sorts of grief with customs in various countries. So when I receive orders on those accounts that have freight forwardering address I cancel them.  Because those items are not suitable to be sold outside the U.S.

So no not every freight forwarded purchase is wanted. Its always going to depend on what a seller is selling.

[mam98031]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

Are you actually asking me to explain to you why drop shippers ask for invoices to be taken out?

I attempted to answer to OP's question. Something you are not doing.

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Nope, that question I did not ask.

[teenytrinkets]

You're potentially doing yourself a disservice by canceling orders shipped to a freight forwarding address. I specifically order prohibited items from US sellers to my freight forwarding address, then go pick them up myself.  All legit. But most of my prohibited items are nail polish and fragrances (which simply cannot be shipped by air). Not exactly sure what type of items you sell that can't be shipped to Canada...

[pjcdn2005]

My guess is that they are not drop shipping. They are likely having you send the item to a freight forwarder and they want to tell the freight forwarder how much to put on the customs declaration rather than have an invoice in the package. 

[femmefan1946]

@Anonymous 

"With a forwarded package, your responsibility for delivery ends when the forwarder accepts it. And most of the Money Back Guarantee does not apply to forwarded purchases."

That is no longer the case. Awhile ago eBay removed that seller protection claiming that disinfranchised employees who worked at freight forwardering companies who wanted to have their packages delivered to their place of work rather than their homes were getting the shaft. 

Would you confirm this?

Because the whole point of eBay's own freight forwarding program, the Global Shipping Program, is that the seller's responsibility for delivery and for damage in transit after delivery, ends at the Erlanger KY plant.

[go-bad-chicken]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@Anonymous 

"With a forwarded package, your responsibility for delivery ends when the forwarder accepts it. And most of the Money Back Guarantee does not apply to forwarded purchases."

That is no longer the case. Awhile ago eBay removed that seller protection claiming that disinfranchised employees who worked at freight forwardering companies who wanted to have their packages delivered to their place of work rather than their homes were getting the shaft. 

Would you confirm this?

Because the whole point of eBay's own freight forwarding program, the Global Shipping Program, is that the seller's responsibility for delivery and for damage in transit after delivery, ends at the Erlanger KY plant.

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Here is a link to that post (#13) from October 2019 in which Trinton explains the new (unannounced at that time) policy regarding seller protections when a freight forwardering service is used by a buyer.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/eBay-Policy-Change-Seller-Protection-Change-when-Buyer-uses-a/m-p/30295666/highlight/true#M1491938 

Hi @mangorunner when the delivery address is that of a forwarding service this is not by itself enough evidence to say the item was forwarded - forwarding companies have employees, and those employees may have purchases shipped to the office. I personally have all of my orders shipped to my office, as do many of my colleagues and friends. When there is proof that a buyer has had an item forwarded beyond the original delivery address, they would no longer be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee. To withhold protection from a buyer, we do require evidence beyond the delivery address being that of a forwarding company

I know this may seem strange, but years ago I personally spoke with the owner of one of these companies who had a case closed against him for a high value item because the assumption was made that the item was forwarded (don't worry, we corrected our mistake for this buyer). Additionally, many forwarding services will inspect and retain the item for their customers if this option is selected. I've worked with many of these companies personally when I worked in our Money Back Guarantee department. These are just a couple of examples of why we do not use the address by itself as evidence of an item being forwarded.

That being said, we can see if the address shipped to is a forwarding address and will consider this in conjunction with other details when reviewing the case to determine if the transaction qualifies for protection. You are welcome to contact Customer Service to review the specific details of your transaction if you have any concerns."

[go-bad-chicken]

 @femmefan1946  

So now for a seller to be covered by eBay protection you have to somehow, by hook or crook, get the buyer to admit that the package was actually forwarded out of the country in order to receive protection from eBay. 

[femmefan1946]

I would think that showing eBay that the address is a forwarding company is enough.

But more to the point, tell the unhappy buyer to return for a full refund.

If you are required to supply a Return Shipping Label, it would be sent to the forwarder, not the customer.  It's up to her to get the item back to the forwarder and to persuade the forwarder to cooperate.  And there is a time limit on the return.

[femmefan1946]

@Anonymous 

Would you confirm that the Global Shipping Program (and other forwarding services) no longer covers sellers who ship to Erlanger KY or other forwarders?

[ittybitnot]

@femmefan1946 

eBay has never considered the Global Shipping Program to fall under the rules of a "freight forwarder".   Using the GSP only protects a seller for items not delivered (once it arrives at the Erlanger location), and for items damaged in transit on the way to the international destination.  If a buyer who uses the GSP files a SNAD, the seller is responsible (usually by sending money through PayPal) for the cost of return shipping from the international location.

For the private company forwarders, it USED to be that use of the forwarder voided the Money Back Guarantee, but that policy changed.  Sellers are still responsible for SNAD, but they only must supply a label from the forwarder address back to the seller.   It was explained by the blue Trinton (who does not work the boards anymore) in a community chat, that this was changed because there is the possibility that the buyer might be an employee at the forwarder, or a buyer was using the address to "store" the items until they could be picked up...so therefore a seller must now provide proof that the item was indeed forwarded to the international destination for the MBG to be void and seller protection made available.  I have the link someplace, but can't find it offhand. 

Examples of what form of "proof" is required was never provided.  One seller provided an email communication from the reshipper office saying indeed the product was sent to the international destination.  That was rejected as "proof".  Buyer messages are disregarded as well, so who knows. 

Seller victims of the "cheap trinket" scam that involve a reshipper address cannot get much help from customer service for this scenario.  The board blues will no longer assist, but a couple of sellers got help from the reps that respond to the ebay facebook  messages. 

[femmefan1946]

but they only must supply a label from the forwarder address back to the seller.

Then there is no change of policy.

The seller always could demand the return before refunding.

And the seller never had to supply a shipping label  if the parcel was delivered, and the forwarding agent accepting the shipment was delivery.

If you can't find anything that shows this as a change from a previous policy, I believe that means there was no change in policy.

I ship internationally, and have been since before I started here in 1998.  Freight forwarders are the second safest addresses we can have.

[ittybitnot]

@femmefan1946 

This is not the one I was looking for but it will suffice.  Somewhere in there the wording of the eBay

policy is compared to what was happening at the time.  The thread is a year old.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Freight-forwarders/td-p/30669020/highlight/true

Flash forward to today.  There are some issues cropping up regarding the subsequent behavior of some buyers that use a forwarder, and the visible lack of customer service with regards to this issue.  Pretty long reads:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Cheated-by-Buyer-Unable-to-send-proof-to-appeals-department/m-...

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Sold-an-item-and-the-buyer-sent-a-cheap-item-through-Amazon-ba...

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Obviously-fake-police-report-submitted-to-ebay-ebay-using-it-t...