Having an item shipped back after refund

[tylerrc342]

So check this out...

I sell a poster for $60. The buyer claims it was not as described. Ebay requests proof from me that item was as described. I upload a picture I took of the poster before shipping. The buyer doesn't upload any evidence at all, they just stated that the poster was bent when received. 

Ebay rules in buyers favor. Ebay then deducts $60 plus a $20 dispute fee from my account. On the dispute page, it states that item will be returned if possible.

So a couple weeks go by and I don't receive my poster back. I reach out to the buyer and ask them to please ship it back. No response. I try again a few days later and make sure they have the return address. No response. I reach out to eBay support and this is their response...

Ebay basically says that it's up to the buyer if they want to send it back or not. If the poster was bent, I need it to claim USPS insurance for a damaged item.

This seems like a terrible system, what am I missing? Do I have any recourse?

[mementomoria]

So the buyer did a charge back with credit card company saying the poster was damaged instead of using the Ebay INAD case where you could have said I will refund when you return the poster?  If so, that sounds like a new scam to me.  And then ebay puts salt in the wounds by charging you a fee of $20. 

[lamber9347 · Accepted solution]

@tylerrc342 The problem is your buyer opened a charge back via their credit card and didn't use the MBG via eBay. That's why you were charged an additional $20. This wasn't handled by your buyer as an actual return, therefore there is no way for anyone to force the buyer to ship back your item. The credit card company doesn't care whether the item gets returned either. Your buyer essentially scammed you for a free poster. 

It's up to you if you want to pursue any legal claims against your buyer as you do have their info. Depends on if you want to put more money into this, but most likely you would succeed in any small claims court. Buyer was refunded in full so they cannot legally keep your item, but they can always claim they disposed of the poster and you'll never be able to prove otherwise. Unless you find a photo on social media of the same poster in their home. Best of luck to you....

[postingid7659]

Based on what I witnessed on The People's Court, if you were to go there, you'd win a case.  There was one on a few weeks ago where an eBay seller sued a customer who did not return items they got a refund for and she won.  They have been handling cases with people via remote from their homes, so maybe it's an option for you. 

eBay really drops the ball here, no seller protection at all and they ding you when the buyer lies.  Probably we should all get together and sue them over that one.  

[mrfindit]

I don't know about everywhere else, but here there is a $50 fee to have someone served for a small claims court notice, and then a small claims court fee, that is paid by the loser of the case.

Hardly seems worth putting another $50 into a $60 poster.

The problem with E-Bay is that they don't care so much about chargebacks (I thought there was some seller protection against chargebacks, or did mangled payments mangle that too).  Paypal used to close a persons account if  they had 2 or 3 chargebacks (or one big one), so there was a disincentive to chargeback.

[tylerrc342]

I really appreciate the responses. I was so confused on how this happened. 

It's not worth my time on this one but it makes me really lose trust in eBay.

But just in case I do feel like pursuing based on principal, how do you sue in small claims court out of state? I've been through the small claims system once before but it was someone who lived in my town.

[lamber9347]

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@tylerrc342 wrote:

I really appreciate the responses. I was so confused on how this happened. 

It's not worth my time on this one but it makes me really lose trust in eBay.

But just in case I do feel like pursuing based on principal, how do you sue in small claims court out of state? I've been through the small claims system once before but it was someone who lived in my town.

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Your best bet is to search online for your own state laws. I've heard that you have to sue in the buyer's state as you cannot force them to travel to your state, so it depends on how far they live from you. Many states are actually quite close to one another so check it out. Sometimes just a formal letter will do the trick and get the buyer to ship back your poster. Do some more research so you can best determine.....

[ittybitnot]

On the dispute page, it states that item will be returned if possible.

Unfortunately, you got to experience the "new" Managed Payments dispute process where the buyer simply bypasses the "ebay" dispute protocol and goes directly to their payment provider. 

In the case of a NOT AS DESCRIBED issue, you don't get to do anything except upload a photo, and wait for your ultimate demise.  There is no option for "return for refund" or to provide a return shipping label.  A return is NOT required  by the buyer in order to get that refund using this method. 

I suspect we will see a lot more of these type of disputes where avoidance of the ebay process results in a more concise beneficial outcome for the buyer. 

[papa486516]

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@tylerrc342 wrote:

I upload a picture I took of the poster before shipping.

Ebay rules in buyers favor. Ebay then deducts $60 plus a $20 dispute fee from my account.

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Wondering @tylerrc342 how many days was this, start to end?

When did this start,

days given to upload your picture of the poster,

then how many days until Mar 26 when eBay rules in buyers favor?

[tylerrc342]

So just an update on this. I contacted Montgomery County Small Claims Civil Court in the BUYER'S town and they said I can file from out of state, it's $65 to file plus $10 to have a bailiff go out and serve the buyer in person. I would then get a court date and would have to show up in person. Well, I'm in Florida so I'm not going to Ohio for this. 

But the clerk asked me where the incident took place and I told her it was an online order. She then said I should speak to an attorney because if the incident could be said to have occurred in MY town then I could file in small claims court here in Florida. Now whether a Florida civil court will serve someone in Ohio is another question but this has bothered me enough to continue pursuing this subject a little longer. I can't trust eBay anymore and without getting a clear resolution on this, I may never sell on eBay again.

Oh and to the last responder, I would have to dig up those dates. I'll get back to you on that.

[fixit2004]

I have a similar situation.  Buyer purchased a fishing reel and claimed it was defective.  I refunded the money but never received the defective reel.  Contacted buyer and they said they decided to keep the reel, there's nothing wrong with it.  So they get a free reel and I get dinged for selling defective product.  EBay won't help me. 

This sounds like a great way for dishonest people to get free stuff from ebay .  Just buy something, claim it is defective, and keep it when you get your refund.

[lonebuck-books]

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@fixit2004 wrote:

I have a similar situation.  Buyer purchased a fishing reel and claimed it was defective.  I refunded the money but never received the defective reel.  Contacted buyer and they said they decided to keep the reel, there's nothing wrong with it.  So they get a free reel and I get dinged for selling defective product.  EBay won't help me. 

This sounds like a great way for dishonest people to get free stuff from ebay .  Just buy something, claim it is defective, and keep it when you get your refund.

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If you shipped this via the USPS and you have the written evidence that the buyer did this I would let them know you are sending all of the info the the postal inspector and they will be contacting them in regards to mail fraud.  The postal service can be brutal if they decide to go after a clean cut mail fraud case.  Your "buyer" (I put that in quotes on purpose) does not want that to happen.

It might scare them into returning the item or getting you re-paid.

[12345jamesstamps]

I don't do returns...you opened a can of worms by taking returns for such items.

[chanyuc]

the least eBay should do is to blacklist/ban that users for cc chargebacks. Just like video games, where they ban you for any cc chargeback.

[pro_carbine]

NO recourse anymore for sellers. eBay coddles buyers and screws sellers. As long as they collect final value fess, or, in your case, a dispute charge, they are happy. Site has turned into a cesspool.