Goodbye Ebay and Paypal

[triquestav]

Dear Ebay and Paypal,

I will no longer be doing business with you. I recently sold an item on 3/29 that the buyer picked up from my house on 3/30 and after he left a positive feedback you still won't release funds before the 21 day period. This is unacceptable business practice. You already take out 10% off my gross sale and 3% in paypal fees BEFORE i even get a penny of the transaction, yet you have a stupid 21 day waiting policy. This will no longer be tolerated.

[hidy-hoo]

@plumbingspecials@ ...and  @  everyone else that keeps saying that a buyer can file an INR for a local pickup only listing and win ~ this is not true ~ if the listing is set up properly for a local pickup only sale which means stating no shipping and no returns, and details of how and where to pickup are clearly stated in eBay messages the buyer is not covered under eBay's MBG.

While I agree that accepting cash is the best way to go on a local pickup only listing, a seller has no way of preventing a buyer from paying with PayPal.  PayPal's user agreement also states that an INR is NOT covered for buyers.

SNADs are a different can of worms and the policy has become a bit fuzzy in that area.  Hopefully we can get some clarification during this weeks Wed. Chat.  Here is what eBay heidi had to say about local pickup only and INRs:

@hidy-hoo wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@bigmotormania wrote:

Hello Heidi, Trinton.

Are we going to address why rules designed for Local PickUp are being used to justify return requests being pushed through before an item is even shipped, when Local PickUp is NOT being used?

Hi @bigmotormania - Buyers have been able to open a return request within this timeframe since the process was streamlined. With the multitude of transactions that take place on eBay, we aren't able to go through each example as to why we would allow that timeframe. Local pickup and/or other shipping arrangements being made is simply one example of the many it could pertain to. 

made it just under the wire ~ Heidi, how do we answer a question regarding local pickup only?  Is the buyer covered or not?

Hi @hidy-hoo - While an item that can be inspected at the time of pickup isn't eligible for SNAD coverage, a buyer would be protected if the item required to be taken home to test it's functionality. Also, if a seller were to accept returns on a local pickup item the buyer would be covered. 

INR protection would only be applicable if we weren't able to see arrangements were made. 

[gracieallen01]

dhbooks, I whole-heartedly agree - folks only learn from experience, THEIRS.  However, a small tutorial can often be of assistance.

I think Goerge Carlin hit it on the head - get rid of all warning lables and let natural selection take over.

I should have prefaced my other post - In today's world, I sometimes feel sorry for new sellers.

[phcd1]

Neither eBay nor PayPal will close your account. You have recent activity. It will be months before they will close, if they ever do.

Now, on to the important stuff. How do you plan to prove that the buyer received his "picked up" item? What happens if the buyer opens a not as described claim later on. You should ALWAYS take cash on pickup. You better hope you have an honest buyer.

Good luck

[ki_korners]

The problem is new sellers don't read anything before starting to sell.

Then when they make a mistake (which we all do) they blame ebay/paypal and advice everyone to leave just because they can't hack it.

How come new sellers can't learn to sell but they can learn to come to the boards and complain.

It was years before I even found the boards and a long time after finding them that I ventured to respond to any thread.

[*eponymous*]

the unhappy buyer would also have to prove return to the seller and pay for the return service on his own dime

Not so.  PayPal's reimbursement to buyers for return postage is 9-10 months old. No cost to buyer, and I assume this is a response to dishonest sellers who count on buyers not fronting return label cost,  whether due to lack of funds or insupportability of spending more on postage than the amount of the actual return.

No matter how hard sellers scramble to find ways around taking returns, PayPal will be on top of seeing to it that consumers' rights are protected.

[*eponymous*]

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@thatsallfolks wrote:

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

To be fair, the unhappy buyer would also have to prove return to the seller and pay for the return service on his own dime to win a Not As Described or Buyer Remorse dispute.

Which would not be worthwhile on a purchase of , say, winter tires.

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Why would they have to prove return when the seller can't prove delivery? It's not a SNAD or buyer's remorse; it's INR.

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THIS thread is about INR, but you must not be aware that a SNAD can also be filed on a picked up item when paid through PayPal.

In fact, the buyer must select "local pickup" at checkout or eBay assumes the item will be shipped...that from Trinton. It only matters what the BUYER selects at checkout, not what actually took place.

Personally, I think any seller whose listing includes local pickup is a fool if they list ANY shipping options AND do not list  CASH ONLY ON PICKUP - or ever accept PayPal instead of cash on the barrelhead.  eBay community management has declined to explain the pitfalls of the local pickup policy so you're on your own...

oh but of course eBay wants to encourage sellers to use local pickup.  After all, it's not eBay's MONEY!

[ersatz_sobriquet]

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@hidy-hoo wrote:

Hi @hidy-hoo - While an item that can be inspected at the time of pickup isn't eligible for SNAD coverage, a buyer would be protected if the item required to be taken home to test it's functionality. Also, if a seller were to accept returns on a local pickup item the buyer would be covered. 

INR protection would only be applicable if we weren't able to see arrangements were made. 

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regarding local pickup only?  Is the buyer covered or not?

Ok.....I feel so much better if "Trinton said". We can all relax now........;)

[torontosix]

There needs to be a form for buyers to fill out before they can even get the product. This should be built into the ebay

In the form, the buyer states the time they plan on picking up the item

seller and buyer confirm that they met up

Payment is made

BUyer and seller confirm

Buyer confirms that the Item is as described

Then the seller allows the buyer to take the item.

Not everybody has mobile data, so even text confirmations would be sufficient ....

Or the seller can decline to decline to deal with buyers who don't have mobile data.

Ebay is just overall a horrible marketplace in my opinion

this kind of stuff is simple. Ebay needs to start protecting their sellers. It's the only reason why I don't list anything more than $20 on this site.

[d-k_treasures]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

the unhappy buyer would also have to prove return to the seller and pay for the return service on his own dime

Not so.  PayPal's reimbursement to buyers for return postage is 9-10 months old. No cost to buyer, and I assume this is a response to dishonest sellers who count on buyers not fronting return label cost,  whether due to lack of funds or insupportability of spending more on postage than the amount of the actual return.

No matter how hard sellers scramble to find ways around taking returns, PayPal will be on top of seeing to it that consumers' rights are protected.

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That's only if they sign up for it beforehand, and it covers a limited number of occurrences.

[shhades]

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@triquestav wrote:

Dear Ebay and Paypal,

I will no longer be doing business with you. I recently sold an item on 3/29 that the buyer picked up from my house on 3/30 and after he left a positive feedback you still won't release funds before the 21 day period. This is unacceptable business practice. You already take out 10% off my gross sale and 3% in paypal fees BEFORE i even get a penny of the transaction, yet you have a stupid 21 day waiting policy. This will no longer be tolerated. I encourage all ebay sellers to delete their Ebay account and find another means of doing business. Good riddens to these 2 corrupt companies. 

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    It seems that the powers that be just don't seem to care much about keeping sellers. Just my 2 cents.

[tcle2745]

To the OP, likely after 21 days you'll get you cash if you are a new seller. It sucks, went through it when i started out. On the other hand,  IMO something is up. Combined with buyers telling me they cannot pay,  out of the blue, Paypal put holds on items over about 200 dollars which is far far from the biggest recent sucessful sale i've had on ebay.  No reason either. I've been selling for years, got good FB, everything is shipped quick, and even hold about 500 or so in my pp at all times for the occasional return so it won't go negative.  Seriously WTH?  My best guess is they are holding money for an ulterior motive of somekind going on. If you( ebay or paypal) feel there is too much risk on the buyer side, just decline the card for godsakes! Is ebay or paypal trying to create a squeeze so the fees have to be taken from the bank or credit like that recent shipping SNAFU? Yes the timing of the holds it is perfect for that screw.  There is no logical justification what so ever for them to all of a sudden hold money.  It's pretty obvious that they want to make the sellers quit, so i get the CLUE BY FOUR! After this month i'm done. Put the fork in. Now back to my regularly sceduled packing.

[kordova40]

i am on the same boat as you are, these 2 supposedly honorable companies dont do the right thing when it comes to "buyer/seller protection" guarantee, its all just a MOTO, but when you really need them to back you up , if a seller scammed you, they sure dont give two cents what ever happens after the sale is done, unfortunately, i learned this the hard way after they are on the scammers side, but i will not let this go, someone from either the post office or someone who works for these 2 companies sure knows how to play things around, but they will eventually get caught, funny how my cases got deleted and now i cant even file a case again.

[kordova40]

im glad i am not the only one these two companies have helped a scammer play me, i thought it was just me who got played by these two companies, their so called buyer/seller protection doesnt mean anything really , once the sell is completed you are on your own, should have known but who ever is behind the screen and helping these types of scammers do their trick , will eventually get caught believe me and its not going to be good for them

[d-k_treasures]

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@kordova40 wrote:
i am on the same boat as you are, these 2 supposedly honorable companies dont do the right thing when it comes to "buyer/seller protection" guarantee, its all just a MOTO, but when you really need them to back you up , if a seller scammed you, they sure dont give two cents what ever happens after the sale is done, unfortunately, i learned this the hard way after they are on the scammers side, but i will not let this go, someone from either the post office or someone who works for these 2 companies sure knows how to play things around, but they will eventually get caught, funny how my cases got deleted and now i cant even file a case again.

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Your cases were deleted, or the listings were removed?

Either way, you can file with paypal if necessary, but ebay would be the first place to file a case, even if the item is removed. You should still be able to find it in your purchase history or resolution center.

[the_right_stuff99]

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@kordova40 wrote:
i am on the same boat as you are, these 2 supposedly honorable companies dont do the right thing when it comes to "buyer/seller protection" guarantee, its all just a MOTO, but when you really need them to back you up , if a seller scammed you, they sure dont give two cents what ever happens after the sale is done, 

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It's extremely difficult for a buyer to lose an MBG case on eBay.