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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

I sent an item through global shipping and it was damaged during transit.  Usually  I have had no problem with getting reimbursed in the past for this, until now....  Buyer filed through Paypal as "not as described" instead of filing through Ebay, and because of this it has been a nightmare!  It has been 2 weeks, and now Paypal is saying another month to look into this??? My $200 in funds is being held, and I've called them twice with no luck.  They informed me that it should have gone through Ebay, (which I'm  aware of ), instead of them, but now there is nothing they can do about it.  My question is;  Is there a chance this will go wrong for me?  Why should it be different how they treat the case just because its Paypay and not Ebay?  I packed item extremely well and absolutely do not feel that this should be on me, nor do I feel the buyer should lose either.  If Global shipping is going to be so difficult to use, then I will not be using them anymore, not worth the risk.

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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

So this, gentle readers, is what we've learned thus far:  the seemingly ironclad seller protections of using GSP are completely useless if gamed properly.   And nowhere in the GSP pages is this information displayed.   Keep in mind this is from the tech company who brought you the "cosmetic errors" to the store subscription levels earlier today.  When all is said and done, I smell some sort of courtesy refund going to the OP in hopes of making this whole mess go away.

 

Until the next time it happens.




Joe

Message 76 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem


@missjen831 wrote:

It’s not PB that isn’t living up the terms. It’s eBay. And PayPal. Pitney Bowes isn’t going to help the seller. The seller doesn’t have a contract with pitneybows. eBay does. Contacting PB accomplishes nothing. They are the middle man.


From my perspective as a Canadian buyer, Pitney Bowes provides the service.  It is not the "middle man".   From the GSP buyer terms and conditions page:

By purchasing a GSP Item, you will be entering into a binding contract with the Seller for the purchase of the GSP Item, as well as an agreement with Pitney Bowes for the provision of the Services, including parcel processing, international shipping and tracking, and customs clearance.

The buyer is not in an agreement with the seller for the Services [sic], nor are they in an agreement with eBay or PayPal.

If you can provide me with a link that states that the seller is in an agreement with eBay for the provision of the Services, I would love to follow it, as I'm a skeptic when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

 

Message 77 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

I've never understood the rationale for GSP, especially since sellers can print their own intl. labels, and then simply hand their package to the mailman. Gone are the days when handing an intl. package over the counter was a requirement.
Plus, if it goes Priority Mail Intl, TRS's get a good discount ($8+ for 2 lbs., e.g.) which they are then free to pass on to their buyers, or simply pocket.
Message 78 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem


@Anonymous wrote:

@lovtaco0 wrote:

@Anonymous, there should be an option within eBay for the seller to file a claim against the GSP so they can be made whole when this happens.


Hi @lovtaco0, while this is currently not an option I think it is a great suggestion and I will definitely pass this along for consideration!

 

@ted_200@dtexley3 & @bubbleman2010 - as I stated earlier, our protections apply only to eBay. We do not offer protection for any avenues outside of eBay that your buyer takes to resolve a concern. This would include, but not be limited to, chargebacks filed with their financial institution. I am sorry if I have been unclear and, if there is any information that you have seen that indicates we offer this kind of protection, please let me know so I can get this addressed. When looking into these concerns I was unable to find any reference to protections we offer that extend outside of eBay.


@Anonymous  GSP is a contacted service of eBay.  The guidelines and policies clearly state that if an item arrives damaged it is the responsibility of eBay's contractor Pitney Bowes.  I've not seen anywhere in the policies that absolve PB of responsibility due a CC SNAD chargeback vs a SNAD claim filed directly with eBay or Paypal. 

 

While eBay is not directly fiscally responsible to the seller in this matter, they do have a responsibility to facilitate the seller getting reimbursed by eBay's contracted vendor, PB.  Depending on the state, eBay may also have a legal responsibility to do so. 

 

In my opinion there it's also a sound business choice for eBay to assist the seller in dealing with their contractor.  If eBay wants sellers to use their contracted service then they need to step up and show some support.

 

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew
Message 79 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

The buyer is from Belgium.  I will try Pitney, doesnt hurt to exhaust all possibilities.

Message 80 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

I use Global Shipping and the ONLY rational and reason is because according to the Terms Of Service ALL I have to do is get my customers package to Kentucky safely and I know how to pack, then I wash my hands of the worries once I see "SHIPPED TO INTERNATIONAL DESTINATION". I may have to rethink this whole thing now in light of the OP'S situation and the responses by the Blues. I do not like that loop hole! It is not fair nor has it been stated honestly up front in Terms of Service.

Message 81 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

From my perspective as a Canadian buyer, Pitney Bowes provides the service.  It is not the "middle man".   From the GSP buyer terms and conditions page:

By purchasing a GSP Item, you will be entering into a binding contract with the Seller for the purchase of the GSP Item, as well as an agreement with Pitney Bowes for the provision of the Services, including parcel processing, international shipping and tracking, and customs clearance.

The buyer is not in an agreement with the seller for the Services [sic], nor are they in an agreement with eBay or PayPal.

 

That's right.  PB is responsible for the delivery services, that is where the failure occurred, the GSP provisions on eBay clearly state the seller no longer has the risk of loss once it's accepted at GSP, and the buyer filed a chargeback with their credit card that landed at PayPal.  PayPal should obtain the money to cover the chargeback from PB - both the seller part and the shipment services part - since they (the GSP) contractually hold the risk of loss.  

 

No one wants to hear "we can't make another company do anything", because eBay, PB, and PayPal are all parties to the GSP agreement.   eBay is the originator and the principal representative of the GSP agreement with the seller, so meeting the terms is their responsibility.  This just looks like a fraudulent scam - being perpetrated not by the buyer, but by eBay - to me. 

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
Message 82 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem


@Anonymous wrote:

@lovtaco0 wrote:

@Anonymous, there should be an option within eBay for the seller to file a claim against the GSP so they can be made whole when this happens.


Hi @lovtaco0, while this is currently not an option I think it is a great suggestion and I will definitely pass this along for consideration!

 

@ted_200@dtexley3 & @bubbleman2010 - as I stated earlier, our protections apply only to eBay. We do not offer protection for any avenues outside of eBay that your buyer takes to resolve a concern. This would include, but not be limited to, chargebacks filed with their financial institution. I am sorry if I have been unclear and, if there is any information that you have seen that indicates we offer this kind of protection, please let me know so I can get this addressed. When looking into these concerns I was unable to find any reference to protections we offer that extend outside of eBay.


I quoted two specific clearly worded examples, both of which stated the seller had no risk of loss for loss or damage in transit, once it was accepted at GSP.   eBay wrote this, it's on your site:

 

As a seller your responsibility ends once the item reaches the Global Shipping Center. If the item is lost or damaged during international transit, the Program has you covered.

 

As between you and your buyer, the risk of loss or damage to a GSP item shall remain with you until the GSP item is accepted at the Global Shipping Center or has been returned to you by Pitney Bowes from the Global Shipping Center. As between your buyer and Pitney Bowes, risk of loss or damage to a GSP item shall transfer to your buyer from Pitney Bowes and/or its third party parcel processing service providers when the GSP item leaves the Global Shipping Center.

 

Those do not even HINT at there being any "conditional" protection that depends on how the buyer funded the PayPal payment. 

 

Can you show me anything in any of the GSP provisions that says otherwise?  I looked for it, I don't see it anywhere.  eBay can not change the Terms of Service after the fact, just because they wish it said something else.  

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem


@ted_200 wrote:

PB is responsible for the delivery services, that is where the failure occurred, the GSP provisions on eBay clearly state the seller no longer has the risk of loss once it's accepted at GSP, and the buyer filed a chargeback with their credit card that landed at PayPal.  PayPal should obtain the money to cover the chargeback from PB - both the seller part and the shipment services part - since they (the GSP) contractually hold the risk of loss.  

 


No quibbles with you there.

 


@ted_200 wrote:

 

No one wants to hear "we can't make another company do anything", because eBay, PB, and PayPal are all parties to the GSP agreement.   eBay is the originator and the principal representative of the GSP agreement with the seller, so meeting the terms is their responsibility.  This just looks like a fraudulent scam - being perpetrated not by the buyer, but by eBay - to me. 

What tools do you believe eBay and PayPal have at their disposal to combat an SNAD chargeback originating from a Belgian financial institution?  The MBG and PayPal's Buyer Protection Policy are in place to discourage chargebacks, and PayPal's Seller Protection Policy is protection against fraudulent chargebacks, not legitimate ones.

Message 84 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

What tools do you believe eBay and PayPal have at their disposal to combat an SNAD chargeback originating from a Belgian financial institution?

 

The same that we do, I suppose.  None.  They just need to cover the loss like they agreed to, and call it "cost of doing business". 

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
Message 85 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem


@ittybitnot wrote:

The protections that eBay offers would only apply to eBay programs and we are not able to speak to the specifics of other resolution options a buyer may choose to use.  

 

So for a better trading experience when the GSP is involved, a buyer should simply go to their credit card processor for a full refund, and both ebay and PayPal exit the door on the whole thing? 

 

Is there GSP protection for sellers ONLY if a buyer makes an eBay claim? 

 

 


Apparently it's just as useful as he buyer sending you an email asking to ship to a different address and eBay saying they will protect you.  Only in an eBay case. 

 

Ebay protections in the real world are useless. As are Paypals. A bad buyer can scam you every time.  I follow the rules my credit card lays out.  Everything else is Fluff.

 

 

 

The Race is over
The Rats won.
Message 86 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

I've never understood the rationale for GSP, especially since sellers can print their own intl. labels, and then simply hand their package to the mailman. Gone are the days when handing an intl. package over the counter was a requirement.

 

Historically speaking, my observation was that for most international destinations there was no online viewable by anyone proof of delivery.  So, any buyer claim for INR was an automatic win for the buyer.  The delivery confirmation was required for seller protection even though it was not possible to obtain.   So the risk was on the seller.   When the online payment became a requirement, we could no longer get those crisp USD bills in the mail.  

 

After a few rounds of losing at ebay roulette, sellers who could not afford the losses simply would not ship internationally anymore, or limited it to certain countries or customers.    Thus the birth of the "reshipper" services.  When these services first started it was a disaster since so many parcels arrived at these US addresses per day, scanning them delivered simply was not done.   US addresses associated with too many INR claims were avoided like the plague,  and seller simply checked the box in paypal to only accept payments from US accounts. The services got better at it in time, and business was good.  

 

 

 

eBay wanted a piece of that action, so started the GSP program with the statements and terms quoted up  thread.  They had a hard time getting volunteers so ebay would opt us in every once in a while, or slickly add it to the new user agreement. 

 

It is true that more contries have appropriate delivery confirmation.  Now, however, we have the issue of having a SELLER pay for a return for SNAD or being part of the free returns program so international selling on eBay becomes even less attractive to some sellers. 

 

 

Message 87 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem

History is repeating itself with the guaranteed delivery program. Not a lot of sellers voluntary opted in so now ebay is automatically opting in sellers. It’s only a matter of time before the seller is held responsible for ebays guarantees. Right now ebay is supposed to be footing the bill for shipping refunds & return labels if the GD date is missed but they won’t do that forever. Sellers are gonna get sucker punched one way or the other.



One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**
Message 88 of 191
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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem


@marnotom! wrote: What tools do you believe eBay and PayPal have at their disposal to combat an SNAD chargeback originating from a Belgian financial institution?  The MBG and PayPal's Buyer Protection Policy are in place to discourage chargebacks, and PayPal's Seller Protection Policy is protection against fraudulent chargebacks, not legitimate ones.

They don't need to combat the chargeback with the financial institution. They need to hold the 3rd party shipper accountable the same way they would if the claim was filed with paypal instead of the CC and they should absorb the $20 chargeback fee on top of it. The payout for the chargeback should come from their agreement with the shipper not the seller.

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Global Shipping Damaged item Shipping Problem


@marnotom! wrote:

@missjen831 wrote:

And this should be written in the GSP policy. 

Canadian user here.  For some time now, I've been trying to find a page or set of pages pertaining to GSP terms and conditions / policies as they pertain to sellers, and all I've been able to find amounts to sophisticated marketing puffery.

 

This is what buyers agree to when they purchase an item forwarded through the GSP:

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html


Do sellers have anything similar?

Sorry to be a bit off topic here, but I'm trying to figure out how seller perceptions of the program are formed.  Seeing as buyers are the ones footing the bill for the "ease" and "protection" sellers gain through it, I guess it makes sense that buyers would have to be subjected to all this legalese, but I have yet to find anything similar for sellers.  Any leads?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?


Here is the GSP terms and conditions page for sellers in the UK:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/shipping/globalshipping/seller-tnc.html

 

The T&C page on eBay.com for sellers in the USA used to look much the same, but they reformatted it recently to make it more user friendly. I don't think there were any changes to the T&C with the reformatting. The information is supposed to be the same.

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/global-shipping-program.html#m17-2-tb4

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