Fraud feedback: Solution Proposed

[lte_owner]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Jim

I'm new here to ebay.  On my first day, I posted a few ads, and got three people that wrote me expressing some interest in my offers.  I replied to them right away but got no response in return.  I then began to search for these customers and found little to go on.  One appeared and disappeared, another had no activity for a month from what I could see.  The first two that wrote me came pretty close together and both from St. Louis MO.  I found it all a bit suspicious.  The next step was to look into fake buyers and found that ebay has a history of fake buyers and sellers, which lead me this morning to learn more about fraud here on ebay.

Well, I found that there were posts from some very upset sellers who had been victims of fraud, and learned that ebay and Amazon protects and supports the buyers much better than the sellers.  This imbalance is extremely detrimental to both platforms by destroying the sellers confidence.  This kind of mentality is good for ebay and Amazon by attracting ambitious sellers trying to grow a business, and it offers a free for all for thieves.  The eventual outcome is, both platforms fail, while counting your money, and the thieves walk away with your products and we the sellers are left with our bills and ruined reputations, no?

What would you say to a solution like this?  Keep in mind, this is an open discussion, a brainstorming if you will, process.

What if there was a clearing house as it were between the buyers and sellers.  An escrow account of sorts that would be an intermediary to hold funds for clearing of passage from the buyer to the sellers, and to act as a receiver of goods from the sellers to the buyers.  In my view, this would serve the sellers to both store and ship products and to prove both description and functionality, a quality control center of sorts to protect the sellers and buyers from fraud on both parts, and to ensure payments are made successfully to the sellers for their wares.

Let's begin shall we?  What are your thoughts, I'm intrested to hear responses from both buyers and sellers.

Thank you.

[dhbookds]

When you buy from Walmart, any other website, do you have to have an "escrow" account?

Why in the world would most buyers buy here, if what you suggest was implemented?    Buyers are already protected with Ebay guarantee.........

[lte_owner]

Right, but the effort is to protect the sellers.  In an atmosphere of mistrust, if the sellers can't sell effectively, what are the buyers left with for options?  The goal is to keep everyone honest, so that everyone wins.

[dhbookds]

if the sellers can't sell effectively

Do you have any conception of how much is sold on Ebay each day? 

[lte_owner]

if you mean, do i have the numbers, no.  I have no doubt people do sell here.  The issue is about fraud protection for sellers.

[dhbookds]

The problem is, over all, this a part of doing business.  B & M stores could strip search their customers as they leave to prevent shop lifting, but they aren't going to do it because it would make their "good" customers unlikely to come back.  There is a risk factor in everything we do...... crossing the street is fatal to some people, there are laws against it, but there are no 10' baricades that would prevent them from doing it.   Sellers have to weigh their risks, use all methods to protect themselves, but nothing is going to eliminate all loss.

[chrysylys]

Peeple want to buy now and get their stuff this afternoon.  The get fussy when they don't have it by tomorrow at the latest.  You're proposing sending it somewhere else first for inspection and evaluation, repackaging and reshipment?

Who would pay for this?  Are you willing to pay double, triple or higher in added fees?

You might want to look into the Global Shipping Program and see how well that 'works'.

[lte_owner]

Thank you for that.  I agree with you that risk will always be a part of doing business.  For me, I posted this thread out of compassion for a fellow that lost a very valuable machine and due to ebay's policy that supports the buyer, without any protection for the seller, this man lost thousands of dollars in a single deal and recieved in return a used machine worth a fraction of the new machine.  Ebay offered nothing to help this seller.  My view is, there has to be a better way, and if there is it has to come from us, the sellers.  Would you go into a warzone without a bullet proof vest?  Ebay seems to think that's perfectly fine if you choose to, cause they are not offering any.

[luckythewinner]

---

@lte_owner wrote:

What if there was a clearing house as it were between the buyers and sellers.  An escrow account of sorts that would be an intermediary to hold funds for clearing of passage from the buyer to the sellers, and to act as a receiver of goods from the sellers to the buyers.

---

This sort of escrow service has been proposed regularly on these boards for a decade now.

It would double the cost of shipping, triple the delivery time, and add a significant cost to hire someone to open the package and inspect it.

Not to mention that unless the person opening and inspecting would have to be a subject matter expert, otherwise he would have no idea how to tell if a purse was a fake or a baseball card was a reprint or the condition of a vinyl record.

It also adds no value whatsoever to a buyer, who is already fully protected - so the cost of the above would fall entirely on the shoulders of the seller. 

In fact, the only way to implement it would detract from the buyer experience - because the only way for it to be effective would be to eliminate the Money Back Guarantee that buyers already heave, and force them to agree to lose their money based on what eBay decides. Buyers would leave in droves. 

The bottrom line is that almost $100 billion in merchandise is sold here every year, and that number is growing every year.

Neither eBay nor the buyers have any incentive to change the current system. 

[lte_owner]

Valid points Sir.  Would you think it may be a more prudent approach that sellers put pressure on ebay for example to offer better support to the sellers on which they have built their fortunes from?

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

Well that is iffy on several points. First of all, back in the day when Ebay was built, because of how transactions worked SELLERS had much better coverage than buyers. Sellers could choose to cash the checks of buyers and not send. All buyers could do was leave bad feedback at which point the sellers would just get a new id.

Ebay's fortune was built on BOTH buyers and sellers. I know many sellers think they're the most important but they only bring stuff. It's the buyers who bring the bulk of the money. Sellers are a dime a dozen here, buyers are scarce. 

Ebay SHOULD be doing more to protect sellers. Any repeated scammer should be removed from the site permanently. However the law and credit card rules are on the side of protecting the buyer. When Ebay can only reasonably protect one side, it will be the buyer. They are deemed the layperson, the seller is deemed to be the professional. 

Since the rules are on the side of the buyers, sellers should not list anything they cannot afford to lose.

[turfsup09]

It is a very good idea for sellers selling high dollar items. The added costs would be paid by the buyer through the price of the item. 

[bonjourami]

Do you realize there are 1.5 billion listings on Ebay?

[sockmonkeydave]

@lte_owner

---

@lte_owner wrote:

Thank you for that.  I agree with you that risk will always be a part of doing business.  For me, I posted this thread out of compassion for a fellow that lost a very valuable machine and due to ebay's policy that supports the buyer, without any protection for the seller, this man lost thousands of dollars in a single deal and recieved in return a used machine worth a fraction of the new machine.  Ebay offered nothing to help this seller.  My view is, there has to be a better way, and if there is it has to come from us, the sellers.  Would you go into a warzone without a bullet proof vest?  Ebay seems to think that's perfectly fine if you choose to, cause they are not offering any.

---

If you sell an item worth thousands of bucks, you need to do local pickup, cash only.

The topic of a "clearing house" pops up every few months, but the shear logistics,

makes it an unworkable plan.

[sockmonkeydave]

@turfsup09

---

@turfsup09 wrote:

It is a very good idea for sellers selling high dollar items. The added costs would be paid by the buyer through the price of the item. 

---

But you would still need experts to evaluate the items.

Say I sell an aircraft engine for 10 grand.  What if I just slapped a new coat of paint on an old engine ?

What if the buyer kept my engine, and slapped a coat of paint on his old engine.

You would need a very skilled ( very expensive ) expert to determine the condition.

Engines have data plates that can be changed, he could put my data plate on his old engine.

And there would be no leg for me to stand on, as the serial number would show as my engine.