Extreme return policy, I quit

[layersofmyheart]

Dear Ebay, 

In 15 years,  I have had about 3 return item cases against me.

Didn't it used to be that eBay would take a look at the messages sent between the buyer and seller, take a look at the listing, photos, etc, and make a decision?

Now, they require the buyer to send the item back to the seller first thing, without any consideration to the situation. All a buyer has to do is send in the request, and bam, it's done.

  I have to report to eBay what they sent back, and the condition of it. I don't understand why I have to do this when it's cut and dry, plain and clear, that it is the buyers fault. In the messages, they even admit to it. I posted very clearly that the screen is cracked. Why do I have to go through all of this and possibly have to refund the buyer anyway?

On the phone, I asked the eBay rep, what if the item is exactly the same? What happens then? Do I have to refund the buyer?  I asked her about the different variables and possible situation where I have to refund the buyer. She couldn't answer me. She said since I've been a seller for 15 years,  I should know. 

The old way should be step one. And if it is not clear, only then have buyer send the item back to the seller. 

I understand that you are trying to protect the buyer. But it has gone too far. For example, there are Grassroots efforts in society to protect victims. At some point though, it goes too far and victims get priority that supersede anyone else. And thus, creating  an imbalance  in the other direction. There is a name for this, and it is no solution.

This is what eBay is doing.

As a seller of 15 years, I quit.

[layersofmyheart]

You are not reading my entire post and you're missing the point. The point is, that eBay has changed their return policy to something that does not work for the sellers.

[mam98031 · Accepted solution]

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@dippitydoo wrote:

I think it's clear the OP is quitting not because of 1 refund, but on the principle that someone can purchase an item with a known defect, but return it because of the described defect as "damaged", plus additional damage they added to the item, return it and the seller is out the return shipping AND can no longer re-sell the item.  And the cherry on top is that they got no love from CS.

-Dippity

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I agree.  That is likely the case, but still not a good business decision but an emotional one.  I respect that, I really do, but you need to remove the emotions and make to make good business decision.  Look at the facts.  Heck look at the money you earn.  If the amount you earn here isn't of importance to you, then standing on principal may very well have more value to you.  Then of course it is a good decision to leave.  

I agree with everyone that has stated for one reason or another how BAD the current Return system is on Ebay.  I've been bit by it a few times myself.  But I'm not leaving Ebay over it as the money I earn is important to me.  So I choose to voice my concerns as frequently as possible.  And I will continue to do so in the hopes that Ebay will add more improvements to the Return system that goes beyond the added seller protections offered as of October 1st, 2019 for TRS members with 30+day returns.

[itsjustasprain]

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@layersofmyheart wrote:

Dear Ebay, 

In 15 years,  I have had about 3 return item cases against me.

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Okay - so you now have a big refresher in what buyers can do now for returns & you have just dealt with 1 numpty who did so. But by your own statistics - maybe you should at least wait for your next return in 2025 before stomping off and slamming the door. Your main category of selling looks to be one that does not get a lot of returns for you - plus you had another sale just 2 days ago.

Besides - saying 'I quit' is not how you leave here. You have to actually cancel your fixed price listings first - and maybe refund that one you just sold to be consistent about your leaving - and keep some money around in case buyers who saw you end your listings get concerned and maybe return their items while they can - which will be 6 months from purchase before Paypal no longer allows a return. 

Or - you could just say yeah - life isnt fair - and sometimes you get a numbskull buyer that you have to deal with. If you can survive that then you should just keep on going here. I dont think you will really find a better selling forum somewhere else - despite all the flaws that this one has. Despite the 'I quit' you have not actually ended your listings or logged off for good so it is not too late to just pop off some steam here and then get back to selling.

[stuff4divas]

@layersofmyheart 

I don't know your financial situation, but try hanging in there to see if you can roll with eBay's changes. Nothing stays the same, so we should be flexible with everything in life.

Ebay use to be a fun place to sell, but now it has much stress. Buyers are not what they use to be. They've become accustomed to being catered to because there is so much more online competition, phone apps, etc. and this has brought out the worst in some.

You will find many complaints from Buyers as well about bad experiences with Sellers. I've experienced both sides as an eBay Buyer and Seller.

I was appalled when eBay rolled out the mandatory 30 day returns,  gave the strong 'suggestion' to offer Free Returns, downgraded the 20% TRS discount to 10%  ... Well, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you understand me.

In the end, keeping up with eBay policy really helps from getting blindsided and creating a selling platform that adheres to them can lower or heighten your expectations.

Good Luck in whatever decision you make.

[luckythewinner]

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In 15 years,  I have had about 3 return item cases against me.

Based on my reading of this board for the past decade, I would say you have been extremely lucky. But every seller needs to examine his own risk tolerance, and determine whether selling here is worth it. 

As a seller of 15 years, I quit.

You still have listings up, so you haven't quit yet. 

[dippitydoo]

Yes, I'm in agreeance that it is best to keep the emotions out of business.  For some the frustration overwhelms the sensibilities.  If one's business makes them riled up and frustrated it gets too easy to let the emotions gain a foothold.  Towing the line of put-in-place policies is not for everyone, for sure! Considering the OP's stellar track record for returns, I def. recommend hanging in here and not give up.

-Dippity

[coffeebean832]

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@layersofmyheart wrote:

The point is, that eBay has changed their return policy to something that does not work for the sellers.

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Except at this point it's not really a new policy. They've been doing that since around April 1, 2018. The fact that you're only experiencing it now for the first time shows how low your return rate is and that you could potentially continue selling for years before running into this situation again.

If you want to throw away all those sales because you disagree with a policy you rarely encounter that's certainly your right. Another option is to be more choosy about what you sell so your chances of dealing with the same situation decrease even more.

There is advice you'll see frequently on this board- don't sell anything you can't afford to lose. If you follow that advice then the policy shouldn't matter too much.

[lovefindingtreasures2]

The scammers have been having a field day here, there are youtube videos out teaching internet 'shoplifters' how to do it.

On eBay the customer usually wins no matter what. eBay cannot afford to lose any more buyers, but they don't seem to care how many of us sellers leave due to their near criminal return policy that allows buyers to basically shoplift while they tie your hands behind your back.

Their return policy is ridiculous and they love to shove that "item not described" button in the buyers faces too.

[luckythewinner]

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@lovefindingtreasures2 wrote:
On eBay the customer usually wins no matter what. eBay cannot afford to lose any more buyers, but they don't seem to care how many of us sellers leave 

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IMHO this is absolutely true. 

eBay does not care about indivual sellers who leave, because most buyers will simply purchase a similar item from a similar seller at a similar price and eBay will not miss a beat. 

Until that fundamental reality changes, I suspect eBay will simply let the sellers who are attracting returns and fraud either (a) leave or (b) figure out how to reduce it on their own .. and will probably not lift a finger to help them.  

[buzzapparel]

No, the seller is out the shipping fees, the PayPal fees which cannot be recovered either and has to deal with whatever physical and collateral damages are done as a result of the reckless return. 

[jojitsusensei]

Don't worry guys it'll all be over pretty soon.

eBay has been on a death spiral for over a year now. NeverEnding fees that force sellers to put ridiculous shipping prices on their items, and now sales tax the final nail in the coffin for eBay.

https://www-marketwatch-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/CFFF0C52-2427-...

[luckythewinner]

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@jojitsusensei wrote:

Don't worry guys it'll all be over pretty soon.

eBay has been on a death spiral for over a year now. NeverEnding fees that force sellers to put ridiculous shipping prices on their items, and now sales tax the final nail in the coffin for eBay.

https://www-marketwatch-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/CFFF0C52-2427-...

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In the past when eBay stock were steady or rose, eBay critics opined that we should not use stock prices as a measure of whether the eBay market place was healthy or not. 

Q4 2019 numbers are due at the end of the month, and most sellers care about how much merchandise was sold. So IMHO, how much merchandise was sold is a better measure of how much merchandise was sold than the stock price is. 

[chapeau-noir]

eBay isn't what it was, but it's not going anywhere.

IAC, it's certainly not the only marketplace with these policies.  Etsy is worse - not only do they state publicly that they don't care if sellers leave, but they basically have zero customer service and an arrogant attitude.  Yeah, their listing rates and FVFs are cheap, but you basically get what you pay for, an ugly kindergarten site with an awful search and poor leadership.  Poor Etsy, it used to be a good place, too.  Trust me, I've sold almost everywhere online for 20 years, and these ills are everywhere.  Just keep going - the good transactions far outweigh the bad, and nothing in life is without risk. 

[laurabeardsley]

As I said before, I now sell on 3 other sites besides Ebay and not one of them has the problems they do here. Ebay is becoming known for the scamming site and I believe this is why they are not only losing sellers left and right but many buyers as well. They need to do something to gain back the trust on this site!

[a_c_green]

If I may make a general reply here: the OP was miffed about having to accept a return; this thread is not about getting scammed out of a high-value item. I think we're wandering a little off the OP's point.