Empty Box Scam

[billiards74]

So, I sell (among other things) Rolex watches.

Last Tuesday evening, a customer having 60 or so feedbacks (all positive) makes a purchase for a $2700 Rolex. Promptly, Wednesday morning, I package up the watch, winding it, setting the time, and doing the final wipe-down to remove any residual fingerprints, and get it shipped out in a medium flat-rate box through the USPS.

The item was delivered on Friday at just at 3pm. Shows that it was signed for by the intended recipient. 

Friday night / Saturday morning (12:20 midnight), I get a message from the buyer saying he received an empty box. Naturally, I asked if he signed for it and if he himself opened it. No answer to those questions. I also asked for photos of EXACTLY what he received. He sends me 3 photos. 2 were of the inside of the box showing packing material, and one was of the top of the box where he cut through the shipping label and opened the box. In his initial statement he stated that he also "checked around the property and checked with the neighbors" to see if he could find the "merchandise".

So, being a Saturday, I could do nothing regarding opening a postal investigation. The watch was insured for the full sale price. So, just filing a claim with the PO wouldn't do much good without an official investigation.

Yesterday, I contacted both the police within HIS jurisdiction and the Post Office's inspector's office. This enraged the buyer. 

After learning that I had opened a case with the PO, he decided, last night, to open an SNAD case with eBay. He also stated that he had already acquired a police report.

In one of his responses, he threatened "since I know your address, I will harass you". Adding, " I wouldn’t be surprised to receive negative feedback which will also ruin your credibility as a perfect seller for the next 12 months.". I know, I know. Both violations of the TOS. That will be discussed with eBay when customer service opens.

He has maintained that he has no intention of complying or cooperating with any investigation since I won't just issue him a refund.

After going through his feedback, I've actually looked at the types of items he's been buying. Get this... 90% of the items he's been purchasing have been for $0.99 or less. Some are auctions for a actual penny that is for local pick-up only; guaranteeing positive feedback upon completion of the $0.01 sale!

I have reported him and he has since been turned over to eBay's "Buyer Risk Assessment Team" due to evidence of suspicious or fradulent activity.

I still have no Idea as to how this is going to play out. 

Words of advice or encouragement anyone?????

[*eponymous*]

Arguing about you not having proof that the watch was in the box is immaterial.  You have what you need to win the INR (via SNAD) case -- a signature and proof of delivery to the zip code from the paypal transaction.

ebay sometimes allows a buyer sign an affidavit of non-receipt and then funds an empty box claim.  In your case, eBay wants a police report filed by the buyer (we all know it doesn't prove the buyer is honest, but it is what eBay can demand).  When the buyer supplies that, ebay will have him sign the affidavit and will then fund the refund.

If the eventuality is that eBay takes your money for the refund, do demand arbitration with eBay, which involves a simple letter to eBay with 30 days notice...and a phone conference with an arbitrator, you, and an eBay rep. Believe me, you would easily win.

USPS, on appeal, also sometimes uses the same affidavit to pay on an empty box claim when insurance has been purchased.

Registered + adult signature required + insurance for value is the most protection you can buy. Arguing about that is immaterial.

Your experience is not an eBay loophole or defect.  Empty box claims in mail order sales is a risk sellers choose to accept in return for the overall profitability of the sales channel.

[nowthatsjustducky]

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@chrysylys wrote:

I still can't figure out why people list things over a hundred bucks or so here.

---

There are still some of us who do not automatically think every buyer is a potential scammer waiting in the shadows to rip us off first chance we get.  We understand that the population of the forums here is a tiny subset of the entire eBay user base, so these incidents may appear to be widespread and rampant all over the site, since that is all that usually gets reported here, but the reality is that the majority of transactions go off without a hitch.

That said, while it is wise to exercise a little caution and take some minimal protective measures (tracking, very concise descriptions and good clear ample pictures as primary examples), going full "prepper" in an attempt to ward off every conceivable incident that could occur will cripple our operations.  Paralysis through overanalysis is a major business killer here and elsewhere.

[raobanion]

Hang in there and put it on your calandar when you are suposed to check back.

The watch should have been heavy and I wonder what his explaination as to what was in the box.

I just got an envelope that was to have a 36 g gold bracelet in it but the envelope weighed 56 grams and I had no reason to think anything was wrong until I opened it. 

This guy was a perfect gentelment until I called him out and he turned into a freak.

He refiuses to contact the Police in case it was stolen from the package and has been pawned and or the post office itself in case he left it on the counter.

I would file a Police Report in his town if he put a threat in writing.

I do not use home addresss.

[coolections]

@raobanion

This happened a year and a half ago. Not sure why you posted to it. Too bad the OP will probably never return and we will never know if the police or USPS investigation determined if the buyer was a fraud or not.

[siayan]

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Empty-Box-Scam-Round-2/td-p/25595798

[siayan]

An interesating tip on Post 43 of Round 2

[kh-ornesh]

Hello Everyone,

Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies.  Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thanks for understanding!