eBay

matt266 · ‎07-15-2017

Hi i have this person make offer on a item and i accepted .

I tested it and it worked good .They sent a immediate return upon recieving .

I started to look at their feedback. And then their feedback for others.

This is a big scammer and has been doing it to many other people . And leaving them negatives .

I feel so bad for all thos other sellers. How does ebay keep alllowing this. This person is a obvious big tiem scammer .Its hard to tell how many people are victims as some leave automatic feedback . Im not a expert on this and what are the exact steps .

They have just opened a false return tryign to get me pay return shipping . Looks like they are also sending many sellers garabage back and junk instead of their items .

d-k_treasures · ‎07-22-2017

@siayan wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@luckythewinner wrote:
@siayan wrote:
I agree but they do it because they have no recourse. Mail Fraud is not prosecuted.
That was exactly my point. You adapt or leave, because no one in the last decade has figured out how to stop SNAD scams.

And suggesting we get a postal employee to take time out of his day in the mistaken belief that he will someday be a "witness" on our behalf just slows down the line at the counter for everyone else.
I understand what you are saying but part of the Post Offices job is mail fraud. They have a whole mail fraud division. There is no other agency that can do anything about. It is not eBays job to police the Post Office. This fraud happens over and over because people know there is no one going to stop them. Just because the Post Office is big doesn't mean they should just neglect mail fraud. I am saying a few cases and word would circulate and it would stop.

I say the Post Office should do their job.
The USPS does it's job. I don't think you understand what prosecuting fraud requires. You need evidence, not the word of a seller and a picture on the internet.
I am sorry I forgot there was a few people who work at the Post Office on here.

In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872.
This is America where you are innocent until proven guilty. The word of a seller and a picture on the internet isn't evidence. You have to be able to prove fraud before you can bring a lawsuit.
Even the postal police have to have evidence to prosecute.
Apparently you haven't read the thread through.
Yes I read it, and apparently you don't understand evidence. None of what was written was evidence.
@ooak-tammy Did you read where I suggested the Post Office have a fee service where a package would be held at the Post Office and opened in front of a Post Office Employee? Maybe when someone opens it and there is a brick inside instead of a laptop the Postal Employee could realize that was fraud. I know this would be an undue burden on the Post Office Employees and of course, it would have to have Union approval but it was a suggestion to get evidence that seems to be impossible to find. They may even need to hire more employees to do this as the extra five minutes would hold the line up for 1/2 hour but that was my point in the beginning.

But the better way for this fee service to work would be that the seller brings in the item to be shipped, it's inspected and sealed and shipped at that point. A special piece of tape can be put over the shipping box.

Then on a return, the same person gets to open it and inspect it.

Now, we know that no one is going to be an expert in everything, or even in some things sold here, but if the box is sealed by the PO and there is something like a serial number(which would then be attached to the tracking #) or 'do not remove' stickers across electronics openings, that would help. Obviously this should only be used for higher value items. But if they inspect and you had sent an Ipad and received back a cheap RCA tablet, it should work perfectly.

_____________________________
"Nothing is obvious to the oblivious"

siayan · ‎07-22-2017

@ooak-tammy wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@luckythewinner wrote:
@siayan wrote:
I agree but they do it because they have no recourse. Mail Fraud is not prosecuted.
That was exactly my point. You adapt or leave, because no one in the last decade has figured out how to stop SNAD scams.

And suggesting we get a postal employee to take time out of his day in the mistaken belief that he will someday be a "witness" on our behalf just slows down the line at the counter for everyone else.
I understand what you are saying but part of the Post Offices job is mail fraud. They have a whole mail fraud division. There is no other agency that can do anything about. It is not eBays job to police the Post Office. This fraud happens over and over because people know there is no one going to stop them. Just because the Post Office is big doesn't mean they should just neglect mail fraud. I am saying a few cases and word would circulate and it would stop.

I say the Post Office should do their job.
The USPS does it's job. I don't think you understand what prosecuting fraud requires. You need evidence, not the word of a seller and a picture on the internet.
I am sorry I forgot there was a few people who work at the Post Office on here.

In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872.
This is America where you are innocent until proven guilty. The word of a seller and a picture on the internet isn't evidence. You have to be able to prove fraud before you can bring a lawsuit.
Even the postal police have to have evidence to prosecute.
Apparently you haven't read the thread through.
Yes I read it, and apparently you don't understand evidence. None of what was written was evidence.
@ooak-tammy Did you read where I suggested the Post Office have a fee service where a package would be held at the Post Office and opened in front of a Post Office Employee? Maybe when someone opens it and there is a brick inside instead of a laptop the Postal Employee could realize that was fraud. I know this would be an undue burden on the Post Office Employees and of course, it would have to have Union approval but it was a suggestion to get evidence that seems to be impossible to find. They may even need to hire more employees to do this as the extra five minutes would hold the line up for 1/2 hour but that was my point in the beginning.
The post office is trying to reduce it's workforce by 20,000 employees. I don't think they will be willing to insert themselves into a simple seller's argument with a buyer. The post office will not accept it was a fraud unless the post office knows what is being shipped. The post office doesn't want to be in the middle of a "he said/she said" battle.

That was my point to begin with. The Post Officer doesn't want to do the job of stopping mail fraud.

____________________________________________________________________
Prov 20:14 It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth.

ohsogifty4 · ‎07-22-2017

@siayan wrote:
@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:
I do like your idea, I wonder if it ever works.
I got the idea on the power seller boards a few years back. I searched a few months ago and can not find it. A lady sold a very expensive vase to France- $2000+. She got a return and her gut told her she was getting scammed. When that package arrived had it held at the post office and opened it front of a supervisor. As expected it was not the vase. The supervisor wrote an official letter and she won her case. The thread stretched out over several days or a week. It was one of those depressing threads then a happy ending. Anyone remember this?

I do not remember that, but so happy you brought it up. This is a great idea.

If I was the OP, I would send a note to the buyer & say: ALL returned packages are held at the sellers PO for pick up. A Post Office supervisor will be there when the package is opened and be video taped using a camera. If anything other than the item that was shipped to the buyer come back, brick etc., buyer will be brought up on mail fraud charges. Just this in the listing could ward off potential scam buyers.

Original Poster might want to put a note of some kind about mail fraud on their listings to give a heads up to scam buyers if you sell in a high scam category. You should talk with your post office supervisor if they are willing to do this for you.

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎07-22-2017

It does get complicated trying to stop mail fraud. Workers could expend hours on a single case and it isn't cost effective for USPS.

However, I do like the idea of USPS adding a service in which they inspect, take pictures, close the box with some kind of do not tamper with tape, and then reinspect upon a return. They could make money off of this service. But, could they make enough money off this service to implement it. They're not going to throw money down a rat hole.

ohsogifty4 · ‎07-22-2017

@siayan wrote:
@luckythewinner wrote:
@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:
I do like your idea, I wonder if it ever works.
That idea has been posted here as the "only way to stop it", as has the idea of videotaping yourself when you package, mail and /or receive the item back.

And yet never once in more than a decade of reading these boards do I recall a seller ever saying that it accomplished anything.

Sellers who encounter this behavior either choose to stay and absorb it, or leave and go somewhere else. Given that ebay currently has 1 billion listings, I would assume that many of those sellers choose to stay and accept getting ripped off occasionally.
I agree but they do it because they have no recourse. Mail Fraud is not prosecuted.

Mail and wire fraud. In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872.

In order to convict,

the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant (1) used either mail or

wire communications in the foreseeable furtherance, (2) of a scheme to defraud, (3) involving a

material deception, (4) with the intent to deprive another of, (5) either property or honest services.

Offenders face the prospect of imprisonment for not more than 20 years, a fine of not more than

$250,000 (not more than $500,000 for organizations), an order to pay victim restitution, and the confiscation of any property realized from the offense.

siayan · ‎07-22-2017

@ohsogifty4 wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:
I do like your idea, I wonder if it ever works.
I got the idea on the power seller boards a few years back. I searched a few months ago and can not find it. A lady sold a very expensive vase to France- $2000+. She got a return and her gut told her she was getting scammed. When that package arrived had it held at the post office and opened it front of a supervisor. As expected it was not the vase. The supervisor wrote an official letter and she won her case. The thread stretched out over several days or a week. It was one of those depressing threads then a happy ending. Anyone remember this?
I do not remember that, but so happy you brought it up. This is a great idea.

If I was the OP, I would send a note to the buyer & say: ALL returned packages are held at the sellers PO for pick up. A Post Office supervisor will be there when the package is opened and be video taped using a camera. If anything other than the item that was shipped to the buyer come back, brick etc., buyer will be brought up on mail fraud charges. Just this in the listing could ward off potential scam buyers.

Original Poster might want to put a note of some kind about mail fraud on their listings to give a heads up to scam buyers if you sell in a high scam category. You should talk with your post office supervisor if they are willing to do this for you.

I know this is a impossible idea but I would suggest that when the package was opened a picture would be taken and attached to the tracking number. That would be the end unless the Post Office sees reason to pursue fraud. Then eBay or others can use that to settle disputes. It is not fool proof but it is better then what we have now.

Now I know this would be impossible. If you ever needed a passport photo you would know why. Only one person at the PO knows how to work a camera and you need a appoitment to get it and they recommend going to Sams Club because it it cheaper and less trouble.

____________________________________________________________________
Prov 20:14 It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth.

gramophone-georg · ‎07-22-2017

@matt266 wrote:
Good news today it looks like the ebay user is no longer a registered user Thats great that ebay took care of this guy it looks like . So no more victims .

I notice my return is still open i never responded . How do i handle that part . Which im just glad he was taken care of . And i hope all victims feedback and other is helped . Thank you ebay for help us sellers .

It's great that eBay got rid of this thief, but he'll likely just get another ID and rock on. eBay can link sellers to someone they said "hi" to 18 years ago that's become a problem for them and ban the "associated" seller too, but they have an incredibly difficult time linking buying IDs to the same person even when all info matches exactly except the ID, LOL.

The only reason eBay acted here was because you started this thread and you were a squeaky wheel. Just imagine how many others there are that we never hear about.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

matt266 · ‎07-23-2017

Thank you all for help and the return is still open lol i cant get anyone to close it .

retrose1 · ‎07-24-2017

@ohsogifty4 wrote:
@siayan wrote:
@luckythewinner wrote:
@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:
I do like your idea, I wonder if it ever works.
That idea has been posted here as the "only way to stop it", as has the idea of videotaping yourself when you package, mail and /or receive the item back.

And yet never once in more than a decade of reading these boards do I recall a seller ever saying that it accomplished anything.

Sellers who encounter this behavior either choose to stay and absorb it, or leave and go somewhere else. Given that ebay currently has 1 billion listings, I would assume that many of those sellers choose to stay and accept getting ripped off occasionally.
I agree but they do it because they have no recourse. Mail Fraud is not prosecuted.
Mail and wire fraud. In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872.

In order to convict,
the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant (1) used either mail or
wire communications in the foreseeable furtherance, (2) of a scheme to defraud, (3) involving a
material deception, (4) with the intent to deprive another of, (5) either property or honest services.
Offenders face the prospect of imprisonment for not more than 20 years, a fine of not more than
$250,000 (not more than $500,000 for organizations), an order to pay victim restitution, and the confiscation of any property realized from the offense.

In a lot of cases, fines and conviction may be punishment, but will take time and dollars to gather the evidence. It is much easier to pull the abusers internet access usage privileges and/or actual post office usage once they get enough complaints about abuse.

I have reported several ebay abusers to the PO over the years and most are not selling on ebay anymore. Pretty tough to have a business selling stuff online if you can not ship it easily.

(*Bleep*)

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎07-24-2017

@gramophone-georg wrote:
It's great that eBay got rid of this thief, but he'll likely just get another ID and rock on. eBay can link sellers to someone they said "hi" to 18 years ago that's become a problem for them and ban the "associated" seller too, but they have an incredibly difficult time linking buying IDs to the same person even when all info matches exactly except the ID, LOL.

The only reason eBay acted here was because you started this thread and you were a squeaky wheel. Just imagine how many others there are that we never hear about.

Boy, ain't that the truth. That's how we know we're being hosed.

imakesugar · ‎07-24-2017

One time I had a Buyer who was also a Seller buy a Barbie doll from Me. It was new in the box. It was sent out for some Christmas for kids and was paid for by saving some grocery receipts. She was so pushy and demanding that I was worried sick that She was going to scam me. So, after I sent it I send her a sweet letter.

Barbie was so Happy to be out and playing again. She was so excited to see all the people at the PO they all raved at her beauty. the Post Master was impressed at How beautiful she was. Blah, blah, blah...

The Buyer/Seller ~~scammer~~ was livid. In those days a new Seller had to receive feedback before getting paid. She was livid...I was sweet throughout the process and ask her to please give me feedback several times, finally, she did! I sure breathed a sigh of relief! Of course, I live in a SMALL town and knew the Post master quite well. I think that She was thinking for several days HOW SHE could scam me after that...

I was SO thankful that I came to the boards and got that piece of advice! It sure saved me then...I guess IF I had something of value for sale, then I would spend the money and pay for Postage at the post office, leave the package open and let them see the item as I finished packing it up. That would not work in a large city. In My little PO, the clerk would ALways remember. I told the PO Master from the get go that I was afraid of getting scammed.

Although Buyers don't like signature confirmation much I'd also put signature confirmation on it. I remember ONE poster on here who said that the Registered mail was tracked VERY closely. That would not help with a SNAD but it will prove that the addressee got the item for sure.

At least now eBay does give the benefit of the doubt to Sellers with DC. Used to be that was not even a given!

itsjustasprain · ‎07-24-2017

retrose1 wrote:
It is much easier to pull the abusers internet access usage privileges and/or actual post office usage once they get enough complaints about abuse.

How does the Usps 'pull the abusers internet access usage privileges' exactly?

annindallas · ‎07-24-2017

If you have to get signature confirmation, do it, of course.

But if you absolutely, without question, want something delivered to the buyer, insure it for $1000., with USPS.

It will take them at least two additional days to deliver. Once, it took an extra week.

But just watch what they do with that package. It's handled specially. Gently. With extreme caution. And not delivered by the buyer's usual carrier.

If you let the postal clerk at the counter know that you believe you're shipping to a scammer, they will often give it the same attention.

a_c_green · ‎07-24-2017

Well, you can get special handling (literally) by paying the applicable $10 fee to obtain the special yellow "Special Handling/Fragile" stickers for your package, and that will get it routed separately. You can also buy Signature Confirmation even for sales where eBay doesn't require it (i.e. sales below $750), and that will require the carrier to ring the doorbell and collect a signature from any adult at that address; he can't just drop it on the porch.

If the package is insured for $500 or more, the USPS requires the carrier to collect a signature, although that's basically for their own protection (Ref: DMM 4.3.1.c), and should not be confused with Signature Confirmation, which is on-line viewable.

retrose1 · ‎07-24-2017

@itsjustasprain wrote:
retrose1 wrote:
It is much easier to pull the abusers internet access usage privileges and/or actual post office usage once they get enough complaints about abuse.
How does the Usps 'pull the abusers internet access usage privileges' exactly?

The address becomes persona non grata.

(*Bleep*)