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EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

Anonymous
Not applicable

CALL ME DUMB BUT HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE WHAT AND HOW THIS MARKETING PLAN IS GOING TO EFFECT US ON 6/1/22.  ANYONE HAVE LAW BACKGROUND AND CAN EXPLAIN.  THANKS

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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

" WHEN YOU GET OLD IT IS EASIER TO READ."

I am also old, and I seriously disagree.37377531_2036520269700706_6142748516927143936_n.jpg

Message 31 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

@katzrul15 

Yes - I understand those upcoming changes, (although I thought the new fees on PL already went into effect in March per the spring seller update).  I had already entered the new formulas in my OWN Excel spreadsheet I use to calculate margin, fees, profit, etc.   There was no difference between my spreadsheet fees/profit and the calculator link you sent when I entered a sample listing.  I'm clear on those changes.

But I'm still trying to understand the rest of today's announcement - content section especially - as I asked about this morning - might have been in one of the other threads about the announcement though.   There are several.  I understand the PL fee changes.  Thanks for all your clarification and input though.  

Message 32 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

A few of your listings may need to be revised because they weren’t in ALL CAPS. I’d focus on listing consistency before overthinking the new marketing plan. 

Message 33 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

I think I'm going to remove all of my promoted listings. Not liking how ebay or it's 3rd party partners can make/create campaigns on my behalf, make or change my ad rates or budget, and that I'm responsible for the changes even if they were not initiated or made by me. Also, from my understanding, promoted listing fees were by ticket price. They will now include ticket price, taxes, fees and shipping costs. 

Message 34 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

Aside from the reminder about the fee calculation change, here's what really stood out to me:

 

We may make available certain features or services through which we may help you optimize your participation in the Marketing Services, for example, by creating or modifying campaigns, setting or modifying ad rates and/or budgets, and adding or removing keywords or other targeting parameters.


If you elect to use those features or services (by informing us in writing or opting in via the Marketing Services), you agree that we may manage your campaigns and take such actions on your behalf without your prior consent, as may be further described by us in writing or in the Marketing Services.

 

That sounds like they are going to be offering some kind of Managed Marketing Service where you would have eBay set up and optimize your campaigns for you.  It will be interesting to see if such a service would have an additional fee, or if they would simply offer it for "free" on the idea they would stand to make more ad revenue.

 

Certain of the Marketing Services may be offered on a subscription basis with auto-renewing payments (“Subscription Services”). The billing period and pricing for each type of Subscription Service will be as specified via the Marketing Services at the time of registration.


You expressly acknowledge and agree that (1) we are authorized to charge you on a recurring basis for the Subscription Services (in addition to any applicable taxes and other charges) at the then-current rates as long as the Subscription Services continue, and (2) the Subscription Services will continue until you cancel (as specified in the Marketing Services) or we suspend or stop providing access in accordance with these Marketing Program Terms.

 

If I had to guess, this is likely laying groundwork for the ad option for Stores that VP of Ads Alex Kazim briefly mentioned in his Investor Day presentation would be coming in the second half of the year.

 

Unfortunately he didn't give any details, but since Stores are a subscription based service, it would make sense for whatever that ad option ends up being to be tied to that subscription.

Message 35 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

I Like Caps Too!!

Message 36 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22


@valueaddedresource wrote:

Aside from the reminder about the fee calculation change, here's what really stood out to me:

 

We may make available certain features or services through which we may help you optimize your participation in the Marketing Services, for example, by creating or modifying campaigns, setting or modifying ad rates and/or budgets, and adding or removing keywords or other targeting parameters.


If you elect to use those features or services (by informing us in writing or opting in via the Marketing Services), you agree that we may manage your campaigns and take such actions on your behalf without your prior consent, as may be further described by us in writing or in the Marketing Services.

 

That sounds like they are going to be offering some kind of Managed Marketing Service where you would have eBay set up and optimize your campaigns for you.  It will be interesting to see if such a service would have an additional fee, or if they would simply offer it for "free" on the idea they would stand to make more ad revenue.

 

Certain of the Marketing Services may be offered on a subscription basis with auto-renewing payments (“Subscription Services”). The billing period and pricing for each type of Subscription Service will be as specified via the Marketing Services at the time of registration.


You expressly acknowledge and agree that (1) we are authorized to charge you on a recurring basis for the Subscription Services (in addition to any applicable taxes and other charges) at the then-current rates as long as the Subscription Services continue, and (2) the Subscription Services will continue until you cancel (as specified in the Marketing Services) or we suspend or stop providing access in accordance with these Marketing Program Terms.

 

If I had to guess, this is likely laying groundwork for the ad option for Stores that VP of Ads Alex Kazim briefly mentioned in his Investor Day presentation would be coming in the second half of the year.

 

Unfortunately he didn't give any details, but since Stores are a subscription based service, it would make sense for whatever that ad option ends up being to be tied to that subscription.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

My concerns also!  Thanks for posting the exact verbiage.

Message 37 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

@valueaddedresource "That sounds like they are going to be offering some kind of Managed Marketing Service where you would have eBay set up and optimize your campaigns for you. "

 

Don't they already do that with PLS, if you use the automatic or whatever it's called?  The seller can set parameters, but ebay can make changes within those parameters...

Message 38 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

@valueaddedresource 

Thank you for posting this.  These are my concerns too and I had quoted the "content" section searching for clarification of it in another thread after eBay sent their email.   No response when I checked last.  The FVF and PL fees changes I get - they were already announced before yesterday's email from eBay.  It's the rest of yesterday's legal jargon that is a bit of a stumbling block, but I like your analysis.  Thank you.  

Message 39 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22


@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@valueaddedresource "That sounds like they are going to be offering some kind of Managed Marketing Service where you would have eBay set up and optimize your campaigns for you. "

 

Don't they already do that with PLS, if you use the automatic or whatever it's called?  The seller can set parameters, but ebay can make changes within those parameters...


@my-cottage-books-and-antiques  yes, to some degree, but that wording doesn't sound to me like it's *just* about moving rates up and down automatically or even adding or removing listings from a campaign automatically based on rules (what we have now with auto-campaigns).

 

The addition of budgets, keywords, and targeting parameters into the mix makes me think they are also talking about PL Advanced Cost Per Click. Maybe they're just going to expand on the auto-campaign idea, but I personally think there may be bigger plans.

 

*Huge grain of salt warning, this is just my wild guess* 

 

eBay has not hidden the fact that ad revenue is a huge part of their growth plans *and* that they believe they've barely scratched the surface on the potential revenue to be made from ads (they say as much in pretty much every earnings call).

 

Phase one was introducing different types/models of advertising - CPC, fixed price like PLExpress, and the soon to be seen Store ads.  But once they've created all these different ad products, they'll need to find new and more ways to get more people to use them.

 

I would hazard a guess that many of the biggest spending early adopters of the CPC model are/were larger sellers who either run large multi-channel ecommerce businesses and already have marketing staff well versed in CPC advertising on Amazon, Google, etc. *or* they are working with 3rd party partners like Channel Advisor or Codisto who offer more sophisticated ad management tools and/or their own version of Managed Marketing already.

 

CPC is a huge thing to wrap your head around and do successfully as far as optimizing, budgeting, etc. - entire industries are built around either teaching people how to do it or, more often than not, doing it for them....for a fee.  Just look at how many marketing agencies are out there that will be more than happy to set up and optimize your Google ads for you - it's big business and I fully believe eBay has to know that.

 

So if I were in Alex Kazim's shoes and wrestling with the question of how do you get more people on board the ad revenue train....one obvious answer to shoot some fish in the barrel is to find a way to tap into the larger market of people who may want to use these ad products (or are already using them but want to do more) but don't have an in house marketing department, don't know how to do it themselves and/or would rather pay an expert to do it for them.

 

It could be in house eBay Ads experts or maybe they'll work out some deal with those 3rd party partners already offering such services for other channels or maybe something else entirely or maybe nothing at all and I'm just talking crazy.  😂

 

Again this is all purely conjecture on my part, but I would be very surprised if eBay isn't at least thinking about how to find some way to monetize ad products even further by offering "ad management as a service" in some form or another.

Message 40 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

@valueaddedresource  Well,  a form of this already exists (as auto PLS), and while other forms (such as your very possible auto PLA) might be forthcoming, I think any iterations of this would probably ( just my wild guess) be similar in that the SELLER would be able to set the parameters, and ebay (or any ebay -authorized third party) would have to work within those constraints. I doubt (again, just my wild guess) that this is actually intended to give ebay absolute carte blanche to make changes to marketing campaigns with no constraints whatsoever. 

 

I certainly agree with you that this whole statement is not just covering present realities but is also a forward looking statement, designed to cover coming changes (such as store marketing) and ever more elaborate iterations of existing PLS systems. 

 

And I 100% agree with you that ebay's focus will continue to be on ways to extract more ad revenue from sellers (as well as more revenue from Managed Payments), while ebay's efforts to increase GMV will unfortunately remain "laser focused" on its Verticals Strategy. 

 

Message 41 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22


@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@valueaddedresource  Well,  a form of this already exists (as auto PLS), and while other forms (such as your very possible auto PLA) might be forthcoming, I think any iterations of this would probably ( just my wild guess) be similar in that the SELLER would be able to set the parameters, and ebay (or any ebay -authorized third party) would have to work within those constraints. I doubt (again, just my wild guess) that this is actually intended to give ebay absolute carte blanche to make changes to marketing campaigns with no constraints whatsoever. 


@my-cottage-books-and-antiques  Agreed, I didn't say and I don't think there's anything in those terms that gives eBay carte blanche with absolutely no constraints.

 

In that section the first paragraph gives some examples of what they might do -

 

help you optimize your participation in the Marketing Services, for example, by creating or modifying campaigns, setting or modifying ad rates and/or budgets, and adding or removing keywords or other targeting parameters.

 

And the second paragraph then says "you agree that we may manage your campaigns and take such actions on your behalf without your prior consent," - such actions would likely refer to the examples given above that.

 

I can say that type of latitude would be consistent with 3rd party companies I've worked with in the past or sat through sales pitches for that provide optimization and management services for Google CPC ads, for example.

 

Typically the seller/client will be involved in setting the goals for ad campaigns etc. and of course things like budget will be decided by them and the 3rd party can't just blow through millions without authorization. But usually, within the framework of the agreement, there is a lot of flexibility for them to test and change targeting parameters and even allocate spend within an overall budget range etc. to meet those agreed upon goals.

 

There may be weekly or monthly check ins with an account manager and of course the client can monitor the progress and reports, but for the most part within the terms of the agreement the manager does their job without having to get explicit consent for every action at every step of the way - the whole point of this type of service is to have an "expert" do most of the work so you don't have to. 😉

 

Of course when/if eBay were to come out with a Managed Marketing Service, I'm sure there would be much more in depth and specific terms and policies for that specific program - that's all just hypothetical and high level based on what I've seen of other "ad management as a service" type offerings.

Message 42 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

@valueaddedresource  We're on the same page about this. I mentioned carte blanche because I've been seeing posts---here and elsewhere---from other sellers who fear this means ebay or an authorized 3rd party can unilaterally make any changes they feel like. I certainly agree that this could be applied to PLA and to "Stores PL" (for lack of a better phrase). Also, I suspect those of us who use PLS have basically already authorized ebay to place external PLs in any place or manner they wish (as long as they do so within the rate framework and schedule, etc, we have chosen). 

 

I also have to wonder if there is not a connection to the new social media links on the listing pages. If a listing is part of a PLS campaign, now when we share it to our social media pages, is it being treated automatically as an external PL? In other words, if I have a Facebook page for my ebay store and if I use the FB link from my listing page, am I in effect extending the PL to my own social media page, and I'll end up paying ebay the PL rate if a buyer comes to my listing through my own FB page? We know that currently there is no tracking granularity that would tell me if this were the case or not.

 

It's one thing to pay a PL fee because ebay put my PL listing on a Google page. It's another thing to pay a PL fee from my own link on my own social media page.

 

As always, time will tell....

Message 43 of 44
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Re: EBAY MARKETING EMAIL 4/29/22

Ebay really needs to explain what this means in non-legal terms. Changing the ad rates scares me the most. Suppose you opt for a 1% additional fee to promote your listings. The way I read this is that they can change that ad rate to anything they want. Let's say they decide to up it to 5000% as a promoted listing fee. So you sell a $10 item and now have to pay $5000 in final value fees.

***

If you further read the agreement you only have 6 days to catch this and file a dispute in writing, otherwise the fee stands. They also state that their maximum liability for errors is only $100 or the amount of the error, whichever is less, and they have 60 days to pay you back IF they agree they made an error. 

 

Until they clarify what they can or can't do I would not use any promoted listings. Why take the chance?

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