mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
We recently had three item not as described cases opened on orders made by 0 feedback freight forwarder buyers sending orders to Chinese forwarding companies. The following ensued:
- Buyer opens Item not as described case claiming scratches, doesn't perform etc.
- Buyer returns an empty envelope or box
- We escalate the case with Ebay FB team as they agreed freight forwarded orders aren't eligible for MBG.
- Buyer successfully overturns each ruling with the reason "Seller agreed to provide refund but did not". Ebay FB team clarifies as long as return tracking provided on an ebay label is successfully returned then the buyer is entitled to a refund.
- We ask for clarification on ebay MBG FAQ, where exclusions for MBG include "The buyer used third party freight forwarding or mail redirection." Ebay FB team clarifies this is only for if the buyer wants the item returned from the forwarded country i.e China.
- We're left holding the bag on these orders when we could have issued 50% restocking fee. Either way buyer keeps his funds and the item.
Policy link here with screenshot below
Is this correct that MBG is still valid for forwarders as long as they use the Ebay provided return label? I'm surprised Ebay didn't include this note when mentioning on the exclusions list or reworded the excerpt above. We opened up forwarding orders after reviewing the FAQ but it looks like we're mistaken, and based on what I've seen other sellers recommend per this FAQ, many of you are also mistaken.
Feel free to ignore my posts if they add no value for you. The same is not true for others. Besides it was an update to the efforts of trying to get the policy more clearly stated. I hadn't posted about it in several days, not that I owe an explanation, but that is why I repeated myself today.
Cancelling a transaction is a different thing that I've said anything about today. Up thread I'm sure I did.
"I think if the ebay community member wastingtime tagged can post here if we can or cannot cancel forwarder orders for address issues or offer address alternatives then would that at least establish appropriate next steps. " While this may seem to be a logical fix to the issue, Ebay isn't going to do that. That would fly in the face of Ebay's efforts to curb BBE [bad buying experiences]. It is not against the rules for an international buyer to use a FF to ship their item to their country. Sellers can't block this type of transaction either.
Most transactions go off without any issue at all. But as in any other kind of transaction on this site, there are bad actors out there and they come in the form of both buyers and sellers.
When a buyer uses a FF, the seller is NOT shipping internationally. You are shipping to a US address.
Most transactions using a FF go just fine. Just as in any other kind of transactions on Ebay there are always some bad actors, both sellers and buyers.
"If you are scammed you have no protection unless the buyer admits they use a FF." You don't have to prove they used an FF, you have to try and get some proof the item was reshipped. It doesn't matter if it was by a FF or the lady down the street. It is you need to prove it was reshipped. Not always an easy thing to prove.
However if they open an INAD, you approve it and issue the return label. That label isn't going to do the buyer much good as it is to be coming from the address you shipped to, not where the item is now. The buyer would have to pay to ship it back to you. When you get the package, you now have proof that the package was reshipped. Refund them for the product, not the shipping or any fees you don't get refunded.
Your assuming that all these transactions are bad. That simply isn't true. It is a small amount that are bad. And it is the buyer that is doing the bad stuff not the FF.
As I previously explained, I just can't see using Restricted Delivery working out for you. More likely to get you in trouble with Ebay because you are doing something that you know can't be done.
@stephenmorgan wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
Your assuming that all these transactions are bad. That simply isn't true. It is a small amount that are bad. And it is the buyer that is doing the bad stuff not the FF.
I don't assume that at all. In fact look at my posting history and see what just a few minutes I posted about a FF in Doral Fl. I have have very good success with FF.
I have only had two items lost using FF and guess what, it was eBay shipping services that lost the items.
Thing is, it has nothing to do with the FF. It's the buyer.
@carlmarxx wrote:50% refund deduction if eligible ,doesn't help when a buyer damages merchandise beyond repairs ,to total loss to the trash can .
It does help, as 50% is much better than 100%, it just doesn't fix the problem or make the seller whole. But it is far better than losing 100%.
@hs_tech wrote:This is going to vary with what items you sell and the price point. Everything we've shipped under 70$ to forwarders we have no issues with and we will continue to fulfill. Once we exclude these orders and look at different price points, the case rates are higher for forwarders and of those cases we have a much higher percentage performing some type of fraudulent return. The key difference to domestic is for FF, there's no recourse even by filing a police report with your local department. These proxy buyers don't have a presence in the US, and even if you had their info it would be outside the US jurisdiction. This is something we've used successfully used in the past to recover large amounts from domestic return fraud cases.
There are other categories that lead to cancellation such as trade compliance on specific products and in those cases, and unlike ebay, the US government will place the burden on the seller to make sure items aren't exported to embargoed countries. Good luck telling them "they can be an employee at the company" if you're investigated.
Yes, sellers are or should be aware of this. If the seller ships an item to another country, whatever they are shipping they are responsible to make sure it is OK to ship to that country. All this is in the rules for sellers on Ebay too.
However, a seller shipping to a Freight Forwarders does not have to comply to such rules as it isn't the seller that is shipping their item to another country. The FF is responsible for that. Sellers are not responsible as they have nothing to do with the actual shipment of the product directly to the customer, wherever they may be.
It's not an opinion. If I sell something to Victoria in Texas, I hold no responsibility for that item if she ship it off to the UK where it is not allowed.
Sellers have no control over where a buyer might ship something or for a Reshipper.
