mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
We recently had three item not as described cases opened on orders made by 0 feedback freight forwarder buyers sending orders to Chinese forwarding companies. The following ensued:
- Buyer opens Item not as described case claiming scratches, doesn't perform etc.
- Buyer returns an empty envelope or box
- We escalate the case with Ebay FB team as they agreed freight forwarded orders aren't eligible for MBG.
- Buyer successfully overturns each ruling with the reason "Seller agreed to provide refund but did not". Ebay FB team clarifies as long as return tracking provided on an ebay label is successfully returned then the buyer is entitled to a refund.
- We ask for clarification on ebay MBG FAQ, where exclusions for MBG include "The buyer used third party freight forwarding or mail redirection." Ebay FB team clarifies this is only for if the buyer wants the item returned from the forwarded country i.e China.
- We're left holding the bag on these orders when we could have issued 50% restocking fee. Either way buyer keeps his funds and the item.
Policy link here with screenshot below
Is this correct that MBG is still valid for forwarders as long as they use the Ebay provided return label? I'm surprised Ebay didn't include this note when mentioning on the exclusions list or reworded the excerpt above. We opened up forwarding orders after reviewing the FAQ but it looks like we're mistaken, and based on what I've seen other sellers recommend per this FAQ, many of you are also mistaken.
@robbie31415 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@carlmarxx wrote:Those ebay rep's where wrong buyers in China aren't covered if they use freight forward and third party shipping . problem is Ebay has newbie Employes's with less then 1 year + no buying or selling experiences lack training on the UA policy's
The sheer fact a buyer uses a FF does NOT make the MBG for them null and void. It is the action the FF takes to repackage and ship to another address. That is the part that voids the MBG. Sometimes that can be a difficult thing to prove for sellers.
This statement by the CSR is CORRECT. "Ebay FB team clarifies this is only for if the buyer wants the item returned from the forwarded country i.e China. "
I guess i understood incorrectly but I don't necessary agree.
Example if the China buyer wants to return from Doral, FL. After they have forwarded it back. Shouldn't use the word 'only'.
Policy should be understood as this.
If there is actual evidence (not the address type) testimony from the buyer that they had their packaged forwarded to different locations. Ebay MBG is void.
Simple.
The thing about Ebay is they don't need yours or my approval on much of anything. What I've explained is how this particular rule functions. It is just another policy by Ebay that just doesn't have the details to completely explain it. The last two words are critically important. That action has to happen to void the MBG coverage.
Not covered:
- The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection
IMHO they should change that to state and/or mail redirection because that is what the policy actually is.
For the policy to be voided for the buyer the FF has to reship the item, so the policy actually means two things have to happen. The buyer has the item shipped to a FF AND they reship the item. Both actions have to happen.
My guess is the FF did their job and reshipped the item to China. The buyer in China has a partner here in the US. The China buyer files the Request for return, gets the return shipping label, sends it to their partner and the partner ships an empty package using the return label. Highly likely the buyer in China actually as the item the seller shipped.
@carlmarxx wrote:These Freight forward buyers their countries can be blocked keep them from biding buying .
Yes, you are absolutely right. Unfortunately the damage is done by the time a seller can block the buyer. There is no available block that we have as sellers to prevent these buyers from purchasing in the first place. The sellers are just on clean up.
With that said, the vast majority of transactions that ship to a FF go off without a hitch.
@robbie31415 wrote:I pretty much said all that.
The point is it doesn't matter what the FF does.
It doesn't matter if it went to China.
What actually happened doesn't matter.
The only thing that actually matters is evidence that it happened.
The only real evidence in these matters is buyer admitting it was forwarded via eBay message system.
Once there is testimony from the buyer then the MBG should be VOID. No matter where the buyer wants to return. Doesn't matter if the buyer wants to return from the US or the FF location.
Once evidence is recorded that FF redirected the package, the MBG should be void.
Simple.
If it is of importance, yes you posted before I did. I was creating my posting during the same time you were. You just got yours done quicker than I did. Not sure why this is of importance, but OK, you posted first.
It is not unusual for us to disagree. It does matter what the FF does. The sheer fact you shipped to an FF is not what voids the MBG. As I stated before, the act of reshipping it has to happen to void the MBG. Whether you agree or not isn't important. Ebay doesn't require our agreement. That is just simply how the policy works.
This is evidence by how Ebay handled the OP's issues. The return came back via the USA return label the seller gave the buyer. So for Ebay that is a US return and not one that was reshipped somewhere. There of course is so much more to the details of what has happened to this seller. Hopefully the OP will be successful in proving their point to Ebay. I've given them some suggestions that should help in that process.
"Once evidence is recorded that FF redirected the package, the MBG should be void." Yes I've said that, repeatedly. Clearly Ebay is not recognizing a message that should be considered. They are likely blinded by the use of the seller's return shipping label. That doesn't mean their are right, it simply is what they did.
It doesn't matter if you agree with me. As I've told you before, I don't seek your approval. It doesn't matter what I say, you always find fault with it, even is it isn't wrong. I get that. Please just stop.
@dbfolks166mt wrote:There has always been some ambiguity around the MBG when it comes to buyers using FF'ers and eBay has waffled back and forth on coverage. There are some valid reasons buyers utilize FF'ers the biggest being saving on shipping costs. There are also the scammers that utilize it to get around the blocks sellers have in place regarding which countries they will ship to.
At the present time there is no way to block buyers in countries you will not sell to and there are some logical reasons for that.
You are absolutely correct. This is a policy that is rather difficult for sellers to prove so that the MBG can be voided, as I've previously stated. It can be a very hot button issue for some. If they were just to add the word "and" where I suggested before, it would at least help it some as both actions are required to void the policy.
@carlmarxx wrote:Thanks again for helpful information you given me. It is a frustrating policy .
It really is. I've put in a request to have the wording changed. However they don't always listen and even if they do, it takes months before they would do anything. But I'm trying to get it worded better.
Because you disagree with me does not mean I don't understand. All it means is you don't agree with me, which is not a new thing. It is this way on every thread we are on together.
