Buyer is claiming they received an empty box after using a reship service

[nbrandner44]

Important bits:

Recently sold an 800 item with full insurance, signature required, and a receipt from when I dropped it off at the post office.  (Also some pictures of me packing the item, one of which shows it on a scale)  The item arrived to the buyer yesterday, and today I've got a return request alleging I sent an empty box. All I've done so far is message the buyer apologizing, assuring I sent the item, asked for pictures to open a possible USPS case of needed (no response yet). What should my next action be?

More info from my research:

Since this morning I've been doom scrolling through countless people who have dealt with empty box claims. I've looked up the address, and it looks pretty clear that it's a reshipping service which some people have said might void their buyers protection.  

There's also a disagreement in almost every chain on whether a seller should wait and do nothing until allowed to deny it and dispute the return request, or approve the return and require the buyer to ship back an empty box, then open up a case after receiving the return. Both sides claim is you do the opposite, the buyer will win. Anyone know which of these is actually better for protecting myself? Also, any other tips from people on what else to do? I'll happily open up mail fraud cases, and police reports if it helps my case, but not sure if I should do that now, or wait a bit longer until the waiting period is over.

[dbfolks166mt]

     My error on the INRI have dealt with a couple of these NAD cases where FF's were involved and simply responded to the open case with the information showing the delivery to the FF and the buyers registered account address. Never had a problem or issue with those cases and they were closed out almost immediately in my favor. 

[nbrandner44]

I'm still awaiting response from the FB page, hopefully they get back to me soon.  After this I'll probably just stop using eBay for selling anything at all.  I've had done sketchy things happen more and more often, and so far managed to avoid anything major. 

[nbrandner44]

I've had some sketchy things happen more often**

Messaging with a baby in your lap isn't good for text accuracy.

[free.deal]

You may try to find/contact the owner of that forwarding warehouse and mention it is federal felony if they work with the buyer/scammer to ship it out of the country. Usually forwarding shipper in US doesn't want to be under the radar of law enforcement. I've had a case to successfully retrieve my item back even though I lost the case.

[femmefan1946]

From tyler@ebay 

Now -- if the GSP is not involved, but the buyer uses a freight forwarder, does the seller provide Return Shipping from the forwarding address or from the buyer's address?
Oooh this is a good clarification question @femmefan1946! A seller is only required to provide return shipping from the buyer's input address at time of checkout - that goes for any return where a seller provides shipping ('free' returns, etc).
 https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/All-Items-Are-Free/m-p/31966203#M1772511
Message #20 from tyler

Also the Money Back Guarantee does not apply when the item has been forwarded by a freight forwarding company (where it may have been rifled or damaged).

I had that policy and have posted it several time, but it looks like I used "cut and paste" last time I did instead of "copy/paste" and it is no longer in my files.

[monster-deals]

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@free.deal wrote:

There was a recent case similar to yours. The seller contacted eBay for business on Facebook directly, pointing this is forwarding address. The return request was directly closed by eBay in favor of the seller.

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Are you sure?

Because blues have explicitly stated shipping to a re-shipping service no longer qualifies as shipping to a re-shipping service because someone that works may have ordered the item there or some other garbage excuse.

[nbrandner44]

Yesterday I did actually contact the re-ship place directly to try and get some info.  Eventually the person on the line started getting defensive, but before that they had said this was a customer, and that the package in question was currently still at the facility.  Couldn't get anything after that.  May try to contact them via email instead and see if they'll be willing to give more info.

[monster-deals]

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@nbrandner44 wrote:

Yesterday I did actually contact the re-ship place directly to try and get some info.  Eventually the person on the line started getting defensive, but before that they had said this was a customer, and that the package in question was currently still at the facility.  Couldn't get anything after that.  May try to contact them via email instead and see if they'll be willing to give more info.

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Unless you can get your buyer to shoot themselves in the foot and say in messages they had it re-shipped, you may find this an uphill battle.

Me? I have zero faith that ebay will do the right thing here.

[kensgiftshop]

@nbrandner44 

Do you have proof, it was reshipped after it reached the freight forwarder, or you just know it was shipped to a freight forwarder?

[nbrandner44]

Nothing solid, only what the person the phone was willing to say to me before getting defensive.  I'll still send an email explaining the situation and hope to get lucky, but my expectations are low.

[kensgiftshop]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

     If the buyer used a FF and the package arrived at the FF then the sellers responsibility with regards to the money back guarantee is complete. All the seller should need to do would be to respond to the INR case showing delivery to the FF. The use of a FF nullifies the buyers protection under the MBG. 

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The buyer isn't claiming an INR, they are claiming an INAD.

[kensgiftshop]

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@nbrandner44 wrote:

 the package in question was currently still at the facility. 

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If you could get a letter or something from the freight forwarder, stating that the package is still there, that would help.

[free.deal]

It is about this case. It looks that this seller directly contacted eBay for business on Facebook and the case was closed in his favor without experiencing all the return hassle.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/EMPTY-PACKAGE-SCAM-ADVICE/m-p/32530784

[nbrandner44]

Unfortunately this Facebook page responds very slowly, so still not much progress yet.  Sent more details and just waiting right now.  With tomorrow a holiday many places I'm worried they might not be able to help before the end of this 4 day return period.  Out of curiosity, anyone know what happens if I click the "Accept Return" button?  Wondering if doing that will buy me some time by requiring then to ship something back to me, or just shoot myself in the foot and close this in the buyers favor.

[dbfolks166mt]

     Realized my error on the INR in original response. Regardless if the package was delivered to the FF it really doesn't matter what type of case it is. The buyers coverage under the MBG ends when the item is delivered to the FF.