Buyer is claiming they received an empty box after using a reship service

[nbrandner44]

Important bits:

Recently sold an 800 item with full insurance, signature required, and a receipt from when I dropped it off at the post office.  (Also some pictures of me packing the item, one of which shows it on a scale)  The item arrived to the buyer yesterday, and today I've got a return request alleging I sent an empty box. All I've done so far is message the buyer apologizing, assuring I sent the item, asked for pictures to open a possible USPS case of needed (no response yet). What should my next action be?

More info from my research:

Since this morning I've been doom scrolling through countless people who have dealt with empty box claims. I've looked up the address, and it looks pretty clear that it's a reshipping service which some people have said might void their buyers protection.  

There's also a disagreement in almost every chain on whether a seller should wait and do nothing until allowed to deny it and dispute the return request, or approve the return and require the buyer to ship back an empty box, then open up a case after receiving the return. Both sides claim is you do the opposite, the buyer will win. Anyone know which of these is actually better for protecting myself? Also, any other tips from people on what else to do? I'll happily open up mail fraud cases, and police reports if it helps my case, but not sure if I should do that now, or wait a bit longer until the waiting period is over.

[free.deal]

There was a recent case similar to yours. The seller contacted eBay for business on Facebook directly, pointing this is forwarding address. The return request was directly closed by eBay in favor of the seller.

[ittybitnot]

@nbrandner44 

Use the big blue SEND MESSAGE button on this page: 

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness

Generally speaking, a high dollar graphics card + eBay + low feedback seller ID + freight forwarder + buyer in the Russian Federation + empty box claim is a recipe for disaster for a seller.  An 'empty box' claim is an 'item not as described' claim for which there is no seller protection.  eBay may require that the buyer provide a police report, but a 'fake' one will often suffice and will not be shared with the seller.   The empty box claim has been especially popular since it usually will not require a return.   

In the past when 'doesn't work or defective' was used.  the buyer would purchase a cheap trinket on the net and have it sent to the seller or to an address in the seller's zipcode to gain a tracking number  to satisfy eBay that the item has been returned.  Since the process is automated, dealing with the lower tier customer service provided no help to the seller who was a victim of same. 

This problem is nothing new here.  Document your issue and provide your contact information, user ID, and the transaction number, mentioning the item was sent to the freight forwarder address and post it to the FBook page as suggested.  Let us know how this works out for you. 

[vintagecraze50]

I once talked with a CS agent here and they told me as long as this international freight forewarded package was received by the buyer, which is has been since they are claiming it arrived, that they can close these cases pronto when they have a message or info from said buyer that the package was received.  If you cannot get this resolved through regular CS get in touch with Ebay for business on Facebook.

[north40sales]

Was this an international reshipper, where they redirected the package to a new address in another country? 

[nbrandner44]

I don't know where the item may be getting shipped to.  I just looked up the address, see that is a third party company doing mailbox pickups and re shipping.  So it could be someone picking up directly from them, but seems unlikely given the persons name, and the fact that they listed the mailbox as an "appartaments" number. 

I did actually call the place to try and get more info and at first got some information from the person on the line saying this package had arrived on Monday along with 4 others, and seemed to indicate that they were still at this facility (which would mean the buyer doesn't even have the package).  Unfortunately after I tried to get any more info they got defensive, so that's all I'll get.

Honestly kinda knew this was going to happen from the get go after the item sold, but by then my only option was to cancel and possibly take the hit to my seller account.  

[nbrandner44]

Thanks everyone who's pointed out the Facebook page, wasn't aware of that as an option so I'll add that to my list as well.

In the meantime I'll probably open up a USPS case for opened or rifled mail or whatever it's called to show I'm at least exhausting my options and taking the buyer at their word, even though it's going to do nothing. 

After that, do I just wait out the next 2 days until I'm allowed to deny the return request?  

[ittybitnot]

After that, do I just wait out the next 2 days until I'm allowed to deny the return request?  

@nbrandner44 

I don't think you have a viable option to deny the return request in this instance.  If you do, what will happen is that the buyer will automatically get a refund from your proceeds, and a 'return' of the empty box will not be required.   This will usually take 5 minutes, and is going to make the situation worse.  Use the SEND MESSAGE button on the eBay page as suggested.  Do not wait until the case is close to "expiring".  Do it now. 

[nbrandner44]

Already sent a message through the return request, and can always send more. 

[free.deal]

Don't wait till the buyer/ebay opens a case against you if you don't accept a return. Buyer can simply provide a police report to win the case without returning anything. I had very horrible experience earlier this year to lose several similar cases, I appealed again and again over months to get my money back. The most recent one was the buyer's local police officer helped me reach eBay legal department for the police report but it turned out that eBay had nothing to turn in, and the buyer's account was suspended thereafter.

[dentalsales4u]

I don't know if this will help, but I had this happen to me before.

Had a $550 item ship to a freight forwarder.

Buyer contacted me stating all that was in the box was the power cord.

I apologized and said I would look into it for them.

When I realized it shipped to a freight forwarder, I contacted the buyer and asked if they had the package forward to another address.

They responded back that they had. 

When a buyer does this, they lose their MBG. I contacted eBay, they looked at the messages where the buyer admitted doing this and immediately closed the case in my favor.

Now this doesn't mean that the buyer can't go to their credit card company and file a chargeback and will most likely win since there's not too many sellers that win those these days.

Good luck to you. 

[duffy4444]

   The overwhelming result of all of this is that you will probably lose the item AND your $800 payment for it on a totally unwarranted and forced refund to the buyer.

   In the future, NEVER, EVER  sell and ship a high-value item on eBay, unless you and your business model are prepared to lose it AND your payment for it. This will hold true until eBay gets their act together and upgrades their Seller Protections to successfully fight this and other types of scams that are sweeping internet sales venues.

   Instead, use a local venue like Craigslist, require cash, and avoid shipping. You might take longer to sell the item, but you will totally avoid shipping fees and scams, INR/INAD scams, and the dreaded credit card chargebacks, which is the ultimate heartbreak that can happen even many months down the road after you think the sale is complete. You will also avoid empty promises from unintelligible, non-US-based CS reps that don't know what they are talking about, or read from a prepared script, or give you some empty, good-sounding advice just to get you off the phone - assuming you can even understand what they are saying.

   I have used Craigslist many times in the past to sell large and small items from a set of winter stud tires, to a refrigerator, to my 2001 Ford Ranger, and even to other high-value items like small collectibles and jewelry. The buyer has to show up in person with cash, see and accept the item as-is, and drive away after a handshake... DONE!

   Sellers did not join eBay to have to become a detective or debt collector, or to be required to file police reports, FBI reports, or fight a losing battle with a shipping carrier, freight forwarder, or credit card chargeback. But unfortunately that is what things have deteriorated to, unless you avoid the issue altogether by not selling and shipping high-value items here until eBay develops adequate common-sense protections against scammers and other opportunistic thieves.

Cheers, Duffy

[dbfolks166mt]

     If the buyer used a FF and the package arrived at the FF then the sellers responsibility with regards to the money back guarantee is complete. All the seller should need to do would be to respond to the INR case showing delivery to the FF. The use of a FF nullifies the buyers protection under the MBG. 

[dbfolks166mt]

     As a result of all of the chargebacks eBay put a policy in place with regards to chargebacks that provides some level of seller protection. Search the help files on Chargeback seller protection for the details. 

[ittybitnot]

 All the seller should need to do would be to respond to the INR case showing delivery to the FF. The use of a FF nullifies the buyers protection under the MBG. 

@dbfolks166mt 

First off, this is NOT an INR case.  It is the classic SNAD empty box scam.  The eBay claim system is automated.  Bots, nor low tier customer service reps will consider the fact that the item was shipped/signed for by a freight forwarder.   Apparently, the buyer filed the phony SNAD claim as soon as the parcel was delivered to the forwarder. 

The OP, @nbrandner44 , needs to contact CS through the FBook link provided and NOT rely on the auto process here at all or deal with the outsourced CS reps that are not able to solve this issue.