eBay

fin-william · ‎05-14-2023

So it was long succesful road without any disputes and once first one comes buyer is scamming the item. The estimated delivery date is nowhere near but once I responded to buyers message about shipping and provided info that it is indeed shipped even though without tracking he responded that he will wait... but apparently not.

It says:

Your buyer filed a payment dispute for an order placed on xxxxx. This means that they disputed a charge directly with their payment institution.

and the reason is that they haven't received the item which is not surprising because it hasn't been on the way for long (international sale).

Is this a chargeback and is there penalty fee to be expected?

bill.purvis2012 · ‎05-14-2023

Why would you ever ship anything without a Tracking number? You can't prove you shipped it. They will get their money back from CC and they will keep item when arrives. Ebay may ding you and charge you a fee if they have to step in.

slippinjimmy · ‎05-14-2023

@bill.purvis2012 wrote:
Why would you ever ship anything without a Tracking number? You can't prove you shipped it. They will get their money back from CC and they will keep item when arrives. Ebay may ding you and charge you a fee if they have to step in.

I ship plenty of stuff Internationally without tracking, loss rate is minimal, I would rather charge buyers 20% less than those that use a tracked service while putting 40+% of what I charge into my "cookie jar insurance fund" aka MY pocket instead of going to USPS.

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep

kensgiftshop · ‎05-14-2023

@fin-william wrote:
That is true, there is no tracking and no official proof.. but I think that given my 100% positive feedback as seller, that the item was shipped as economy (as stated in the ad) with the latest estimated delivery date couple weeks in the future (I also gave link where my country post office gave delivery estimates and even that time has not passed yet) and that I provided picture of the actual letter I took on the shipping day showing both of our adresses I think buyer shouldn't yet think that I was trying to scam him.

Yes, no official proof, but what really happened here is that buyer now knows that the item has been sent and that he can also get his money back. I know I could repeat that same scam easily.

How does the buyer know you shipped it?

I can take a photo of an envelope with both addresses and say I shipped it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to.

It kind of sucks, but without that tracking, the buyers going to win every time.

Have a great day.

dirk12955 · ‎05-14-2023

I also ship many items overseas without tracking, The OP already said that the item was not valuable.

It's sort of hard to get a buyer to pay $16.00 for shipping on a $10.00 item. I receive maybe

1 INR out of 100 overseas sales when there's no tracking. The loss is very minimal for me. If and When the $$ amount gets higher then the buyer

has to pay the $16.00 or whatever it is.

There are certain countries I've stopped shipping to because of consistent INR claims. Any former

Communist country, Estonia, Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania, any of those former communist

are problems for me. Include Russia of course. I also have problems with just about any

South American country so I'm blocking them.

I ship to Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and most other non communist countries

on an almost daily basis without tracking, and without issue.

eBay is full of honest buyers, In some categories.

ogaugeminiaturefigures · ‎05-14-2023

One more reason no international sales for me.

fin-william · ‎05-14-2023

Yes , like some people mentioned, the items I sell are mostly cheap so tracked shipping would cost sometimes several times more than the item and like I said, if the the value is 20€+ then I will prefer to use tracking.

I know that there is no seller protection without tracking and even with that buyers can steal items (claim defect and ship back junk etc.), that's why I would never sell an iPhone or similar here.

There simply is no way the item could have arrived because it was Economy shipment, after buyer got some proof (yes, no tracking) he first said he will wait but then remembered that he can get his money back and wait for item. Instead of even waiting for my country's post office estimated delivery time (which is less than eBay's) he filed chargeback. It is very clear to me what is happening regarding his honesty.

But, what I asked originally was that if this was indeed chargeback which I suspected it is and if there's a fee. I have already refunded him so that's done, I can't find any mention of it now but when I accepted it I think I saw text which said that there is no fee if I accept the dispute, meaning any CC fees and not eBay fees. Someone in the thread mentioned that there is if I challenge the dispute and lose.

fin-william · ‎05-14-2023

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293#eligi...

mam98031 · ‎05-14-2023

@ogaugeminiaturefigures wrote:
One more reason no international sales for me.

@ogaugeminiaturefigures

The OP is from Brazil so that is a real issue for them to use tracking as it isn't cheap.

But for US sellers you can use EIS and it isn't a problem.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mam98031 · ‎05-14-2023

@fin-william wrote:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293#eligi...

YES, great information and what most have been sharing with you. Tracking is just so important and the only think that will help you in a case like you have had filed against you. Without tracking there is no way you can win it and you don't have any Seller Protection either.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

femmefan1946 · ‎05-14-2023

You shipped from overseas (Finland) without tracking.

Okay, I rarely track either because international tracking is very expensive. (I'm in Canada.)

Because the USPS offers dead cheap domestic tracking, US buyers have come to expect it.

And while most are honest, some will take advantage.

As non-US sellers we have to balance using tracking and never having an Item Not Received dispute, with lost sales due to high tracked shipping costs.

Because your buyer filed a dispute with his 'payment institution' (credit card?) I suspect the deadline for eBay dispute had passed.

The deadline is estimated date for delivery PLUS 30 days.

Did you try making shipping cheaper by using Surface shipping?

Don't ever do that.

Surface takes three months to arrive. Your customer has lost patience.

Since you cannot prove delivery (or even shipping) refund without an argument.

Never ship Surface only Air Mail.

And don't ship without tracking unless you can afford to lose your item.

One good thing. If you do refund there will be no further penalty.

And we non-US sellers do not need to track anything in order to qualify for a Global Top Rated Seller which gives us some useful perks.

fin-william · ‎05-15-2023

Because your buyer filed a dispute with his 'payment institution' (credit card?) I suspect the deadline for eBay dispute had passed.

No, the shipment had been on its way for 5 working days after which buyer filed chargeback, so no eBay deadlines even near, last date was on next month, my country's post office estimates 8-10 working days for delivery.

Buyer contacted me and asked if I had shipped the item. I provided him some information about estimated delivery times and also sent that photo, just to "calm him down" that the item has really been sent. He then said okay and that he'll be waiting. After approximately two hours he filed chargeback because he realized he can have both the item and money by exploiting the system.

I know very well that tracking is required to have some level of seller protection, gotta say I was surprised that someone would bother scamming item which has so low value. My questions were answered early in the thread but we have gotten into a limbo regarding the importance of tracking number regarding seller protection, I know it is needed to have any protection 😄

fin-william · ‎05-23-2023

Well, Payment Dispute is still unfinished, credit card issuer has not reviewed the case, but buyer left positive feedback, that's nice, glad that he's happy... I would still like to give him negative, but since this is eBay, I can't 😄

duffy4444 · ‎05-23-2023

@fin-william wrote:
Yes, I know that this is a lost case but I was wondering about that penalty fee, good if that doesn't apply when I refund now. Buyer basically got info that the item is shipped and decided to get it for free but as mentioned, it was luckily quite cheap and not an iPhone etc.

@fin-william:

You said the value of the item is under 10 Euros including shipping and basically "worthless", so why would you want to take the risk of having to pay the equivalent of an extra $20 by challenging the dispute? Doesn't make sense to me... Since you already blocked the buyer, I recommend you simply walk away and get on with your selling life.

By the way, consider using tracking on sales lower than your 20 Euros standard. The risk is up to you by not providing tracking.

Cheers, Duffy

fin-william · ‎05-23-2023

No, I didn't mean that I would even try to challenge the dispute, what I meant that because there's no tracking there's is no other options than refund buyer (case is lost already), even though I knew he was just exploiting system.