Buyer Claims a sealed DVD isn’t as described.

[digitdiscs]

I'm a former PowerSeller who only recently dipped my toe back in to selling on ebay. I'm having the hardest time understanding this new-to-me policy that the buyer is always right.

I sold a brand new sealed DVD to a buyer. The UPC, item image, and all of the details in my listing description are 100% accurate. The buyer filed a return request with these details:

Reason for return

Doesn't match description or photos

Comments

I did not remove it from the shrink wrap because it is not what I expected.

I've spoken on the phone with ebay CS three times during this process now and I'm getting conflicting info. First time ebay told me I should accept the return since I have no choice anyway. Why even ask me then, ebay? They also told me that once I receive the item back and confirm it's as I described that I should open a dispute. Since I only have 3 days to approve a refund to the buyer, the day the item is returned I immediately file "report an issue with the buyer" and it tells me ebay will usually get back to the seller within 48 hours. 2 days pass without a response, so I talk to CS again and they tell me not to do anything, wait for a response to my report, and that I can appeal ebay's decision if it's in the buyer's favor. 3rd day comes and buyer automatically gets a refund. 6 days after the filing the report I still haven't heard anything from ebay, and I see no option to appeal ebay's decision since they clearly haven't actively decided anything. The refund was automatic. 

The buyer's feedback shows a couple of negative feedbacks for abusing ebay's return policy, and this definitely reeks of it. Also a red flag, the buyer (who is also a seller) has received 2000+ feedback, but has only left 79 total, a good portion of which are negative. I have a nearly perfect ebay track record, 100% positive feedback, seller for 20 years, etc, and I don't want this buyer to impact me or my standing in any way.

Today I had a third phone call with CS and they said the only way to appeal is directly through CS. Huh? There's a whole link about appealing a decision. Now they're telling me they'll look into and I'll get a response from ebay, though I've already been told that before.

Currently I'm out the cost of shipping to the buyer, and the cost of shipping it back to me, which is obviously not a huge cost. But what if it was an expensive item to ship -- I've had items that cost over $200 to ship, such as large art pieces -- and everything about my item is "as described?" I'm just out the money because a buyer can decide for any reason to return an item? Apparently it's also meaningless that I have a "no returns" policy listed in all my sales. Why even allow me to say that if it won't be honored by ebay anyway? If even a brand new DVD can be returned "not as described", how will ebay rule in my favor on anything that's even remotely debatable? Is this madness actually ebay seller reality? It sounds bonkers.

[Anonymous]

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@digitdiscs wrote:

CS and their online help info is lying to me. If so, how do all of you sellers deal with this?

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Accept the return, refund and move on.

CS is trash, in case you haven't noticed, you will.

[digitdiscs]

I appreciate all of the frank comments here. Clearly ebay itself is NOT AS DESCRIBED. Where do I get my refund for this ebay hoax? 😝

Let me turn this around again and ask all of you sellers, how do you deal with this issue since apparently we are never protected on any sale on ebay? Seems like if so many buyers know this as well then they are potentially abusing the policy at will. So all sellers just sign up to take a loss here? I've never dealt with a resale site that operates with zero seller protection like this.

[iart]

I don't know how valuable the DVD is (most aren't worth all that much) but you seem to be spending a lot of time calling CS and writing the post.

That's overhead you could save by taking the return and moving on to the next sale.

[digitdiscs]

For sure, which is why I stated that I'm just trying ebay again to see how it goes before committing to sell -- and then apparently losing money on fraudulent returns -- higher priced items. I have more to sell than DVDs, though some are collectable (say $50-$150).

[kosmosattik]

@katzrul15 r 

"Buyers do not read."

Yeah, clearly not all or even most, but enough to call that true.   While I have not been bitten by that bug yet as an eBay seller, all you have to do is read the one and two star reviews of products on Amazon, the ones I read when considering a product.   Some complaints seem legit; many fall in the the category of "did not read", "did not measure", did not properly research for the right model number, turn a minor nit pick into an outrage, fail to understand the inherent limitations of that kind of product, or in general expect some kind of life changing experience that did not measure up.  Many can't find their way to post their comments under the right product.

[Anonymous]

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@digitdiscs wrote:

For sure, which is why I stated that I'm just trying ebay again to see how it goes before committing to sell -- and then apparently losing money on fraudulent returns -- higher priced items. I have more to sell than DVDs, though some are collectable (say $50-$150).

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You and I started roughly around the same time.

To say the "clientele" and issues to deal with these days are  a far cry from back then is an understatement. I don't list nor sell nearly as much as I used to and am quite happy with that.

[digitdiscs]

From the responses I'm receiving, you're saying ebay is lying about the appeal process? No seller ever gets anything in their favor? Why would ebay bother stating this and having a form and a process?

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-ebays-decision-return-missing-item...

"If you don’t agree with our decision after we’ve stepped in to help resolve an issue between you and your buyer, you can appeal by providing new information within 30 days of the case being closed.

Whenever we’re asked to step in and help with an issue, we do our best to come to the fairest decision. Sometimes, though, you might not agree with our decision, especially if there’s additional information you can provide for consideration.

When you make an appeal, we’ll review the case including any new information you provide, and come back to you with a final decision. We’ll normally get back to you within 48 hours, though occasionally it can take a little longer."

[katzrul15]

We accept returns - no questions asked on most items.  To be TRS+, that is the deal.  We get a hand full of returns over the course of a year (not many) and you build it into your costs overall to sell here.

We sell on the River also....talk about a returns policy.  I think that is why it does not bother me.  Selling on the River for over 15 years and here longer.  Amazon handles all returns, I let e-bay handle all returns.  

Why spend time arguing with a Buyer that never seems to end in your Favor to begin with?  

You did notice in my first post, I referenced the "hose me" button and to get in line?  I don't know about you, but I want my product back.  I make every Buyer work for their return dollars.  No return, no dollars.  E-bay will back you up on that.  Buyer returns, leaves a Neg - e-bay will remove it as it qualifies for removal.

Again.  Welcome back to e-Bay.  Coloring inside the lines is much less stress for a Seller than not.  Was this is a high-dollar DVD?  

[digitdiscs]

Sigh. I guess it is what it is then. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if I hadn't been told the exact opposite policies by 3 different ebay CS reps and their own Seller policies listed on their site. I don't deal well with lying, especially when it costs me money.

The DVD was cheap, but I have sold some for $100+ and I have many other types of more expensive items to sell. That's why I just listed a few things to learn the ropes again after being gone for so long. Answer received: It really sucks!

[luckythewinner]

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@digitdiscs wrote:

But what if it was an expensive item to ship -- I've had items that cost over $200 to ship, such as large art pieces -- and everything about my item is "as described?" I'm just out the money because a buyer can decide for any reason to return an item? 

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Correct.

Depending upon your risk tolerance, some items are not a good fit for eBay. For me, heavy items are a non-starter. 

I saw the writing on the wall more than five years ago, and have transitioned all my eBay inventory to items that

(a) ship by first class or by media mail; and

(b) were acquired at little to no cost.  

And I did this despite the fact that I had no issue whatsoever with returns or disputes. 

[katzrul15]

Some categories seem to draw more issues than others.  We don't have a lot of problems and really never have.  I will say though, I am more cautious than I used to be.  

The Spring Seller update (someone will post a link) has a few changes as well.  Be glad that if you have been gone 6+ months, you still have your selling limits intact.  Many Sellers come back, they do not and that is a mess.

You have a high enough FB score that I really doubt this is what you think it is.  Buyers really do not read.  Most people buy Blu-Ray or HD and yours was a DVD.  They got it and since it says they never opened it, they probably expected a BluRay and not a DVD.  It is clearly "Buyer's Remorse" but they selected IND, so that is how they get to return it.

You just got a lemon early on as you started back up.  The line you're back in has a lemonade stand up ahead.  Trade that lemon in for a bigger button.  lol

Good luck.  Welcome back.  

p.s.  On your higher dollar items, it appears USPS in some regions still isn't actually having Buyers sign for the parcels, even though you buy signature confirmation.  My shipments lately, have not had an issue except Memphis and MD.  I use SC for most items over $100.  Does nothing for you in a dispute, but I like to think it offers a little bit of a deterrent to Buyer.  Probably doesn't, but hey...feels like I am doing something.

[2013grotz]

>All my listings include "Seller does not offer returns."

Meaningless.  Buyer is always right even when they're 100% wrong on ebay.  Welcome back.

[markdown-media]

As many others have noted, your best option is return/refund (if worth getting back) or refund only.

Block the buyer after and move on.

I have successfully disputed some "Not as Described" claims, but it is only when the buyer is very specific in the return request and it contradicted something in the listing. For example, one buyer claimed "Not as Described" because there was a cut in the barcode. My listing clearly stated as such, and I was able to get the claim dismissed. But it is so rare, most are just refunds and be gone.

[michigan-parts-peddler]

I had a similar issue lately. The buyer purchased an auto part that was clearly listed with a full description including the years it would fit. They wanted to return it, said it wouldn't fit there car. When I asked them what there application was they told me a year/make/model that never did exist (and was out of the year range i listed). CS told me i had to take the return due to buyers remorse.  I also recieved different information from different CS representatives. I tried to have them step in.......

Long story short I recieved my part back (buyer paid shipping) but I was out the shipping cost. This was an older listing of mine that still had a return policy and free shipping. 

I list all my items with no return policy and i do not offer free shipping, for me it seems people do not grasp the cost of shipping an item. I am a top rated seller and power seller, but I opt out of offering returns for the little perks eBay offers by doing that. 

I have only had 3 returns since 2015, so i guess i am fortunate. Only one of those was for a good reason. 

[chapeau-noir]

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@digitdiscs wrote:

From the responses I'm receiving, you're saying ebay is lying about the appeal process? No seller ever gets anything in their favor? Why would ebay bother stating this and having a form and a process?

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-ebays-decision-return-missing-item...

"If you don’t agree with our decision after we’ve stepped in to help resolve an issue between you and your buyer, you can appeal by providing new information within 30 days of the case being closed.

Whenever we’re asked to step in and help with an issue, we do our best to come to the fairest decision. Sometimes, though, you might not agree with our decision, especially if there’s additional information you can provide for consideration.

When you make an appeal, we’ll review the case including any new information you provide, and come back to you with a final decision. We’ll normally get back to you within 48 hours, though occasionally it can take a little longer."

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The above, we have found, is mostly eyewash - the odds are just not good when eBay "steps in".  What I would do instead is just take the return, then appeal.  Believe it or not, this has sometimes worked - you've already shown diligence in taking the return, and that seems to help.  If it doesn't, you at least tried.  But calling CS over and over again on this before even taking the return will just waste your time, as you've unfortunately found out.

Also, know that this doesn't happen all the time on eBay - you got a clunker of a sale, but most of them go well.