09-14-2021 05:10 AM
Sold an item and the buyer sent me message a few hours after delivery that it was missing. The photo they attached in the message shows two USPS damage labels that were suspiciously placed on the package with an opening clearly off placed from the labels. I would suspect that if this were internal theft that it's quite odd an employee would take a chance on random package opening to thieve in this way. As of now, I'm filing a claim for USPS mail fraud and communicating with the buyer to determine if they are persistent on wanting to handle this claim of theft. Looking for advice and others stories concerning receiving anything similar in claims from buyers. How did it turn out?
09-30-2021 01:29 AM
@chaos-games.llc wrote:Would you go over two weeks without communication and avoid handling the issue?
Did the buyer get a refund ? I do not know all the circumstances and am not willing to go back 120 posts to find out. I know if I had a refund and was being asked lots of questions through several messages I would have ignored them.
09-30-2021 02:12 AM
No. Buyer is a thief who steals from people and commits fraud by using USPS damage labels to claim they received an opened package. They do this selectively and avoid communication or even presenting the package to the local Post Office. A police report is being filed and I'll file a civil suit for small claims. We'll see how much it actually was worth costing them when enough people catch wind in their local area for gaming that they will steal MTG cards.
09-30-2021 05:38 AM
Update: The buyer ignored any communication for over two weeks about handling this and have now waited until close to the 30 day window to file a claim. I've already filed a mail fraud claim with USPS over a week ago and will be pursuing a local police report for the theft. If you'll notice in the image of the package on the countertop, then you'll see fragments from the package having been opened/ripped open right there. Not only would the package have been delivered to the buyer, confirmed by the local USPS PostMaster, but the fragments of the mailer ending up strewn on the countertop is another red flag. The USPS labels appear very freshly applied to the packaging which would denote that it had not been shipped with those from multiple locations. Contacting the PostMaster at the location to determine if they have any images of the package when they scan them for Informed Delivery.
09-30-2021 09:16 AM
As my previous replies indicate, I'm totally with you on this. I despise scammers to no end, particularly scammers of THIS kind of business. We platform sellers are not the fully autonomous owners of our businesses, nor the uninvested employees. That is, we have neither full power to make decisions, nor the carefree ease of having all decisions already dictated by policy. And this is the precise dynamic that scammers like this sticker guy is trying to exploit, rolling the dice on the seller being sufficiently scared of making the "wrong" decision, with the implication that it would then go up to the true holder of power (ebay), or maybe even their own bank (as I am currently dealing with on a sale to a payment dispute scammer).
And what I see you trying to explain in these replies (and most everyone seeming not to 'get') is that what THIS particular scam attempts is beyond despicable; it is literally felonious! It's one thing for a person to (for instance) drop and break an item like a ceramic or whatever, send you photos claiming it arrived that way, or even pretend they can't take photos and have all kinds of excuses why they can't ship something back for a refund, to just get the item for free --been there REPEATEDLY. Of course "broken" isn't a claim someone would make about a trading card, but say they claimed it arrived wet --that would be (merely) despicable. But THIS guy? Oh no, he aimed to bypass all question of whether or not HE did something to the card; he's claiming he doesn't even HAVE it, because your packaging wasn't secure enough to deliver it AT ALL. And he didn't settle for showing you the ripped envelope; he used official (or at least official-looking) evidence, to indicate that the United States Postal Service backs his claim.
THAT IS WHY THIS IS A FELONY. BECAUSE THE AUTHORITY CARRIES SO MUCH WEIGHT THAT THE WRONG HANDS COULD USE IT FOR ALL KINDS OF MISDEEDS, AND THE MORE IT GOT USED THAT WAY, THE MORE THE AUTHORITY AND TRUST WOULD BE UNDERMINED. IT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF IMPERSONATING A POLICE OFFICER. IF THIS SEEMS LIKE HYPERBOLE, IMAGINE A MUCH HIGHER DOLLAR AMOUNT, IMAGINE CLAIMS OF NON-RECEIPT OF EXTREMELY IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS, ETC.
AND NEVER MIND IMAGINING; JUST LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE SAID, "JUST GIVE THE GUY HIS REFUND".
All that said, the only thing I have doubts about would be what grounds you would have for a CIVIL suit, even a small claims one. As long as you don't refund him the money (and he doesn't use ebay or his bank to force you to), you have zero damages to claim. As of right now, he paid you for an item and you sent the item, period. The only thing he might owe anyone would be answers to CRIMINAL charges, mail fraud. But, and I hate to say this, I really don't see how the USPS could prove that none of their employees put those stickers on, in any facility along the package's journey. That's really what this boils down to, and so I seriously doubt they will do anything. But it's still important that you report him to them, so he is on their radar for future crimes of this nature, and that HE KNOWS YOU REPORTED HIM. That, along with keeping your money, is a pretty decent 'win' in my book, or at least the best you're going to get.
10-05-2021 05:20 PM
Just wanted to update since it's been a bit after the buyer filed a claim. Confronted them over the phone and they victimized themselves as if I had no right to contact them via telephone. They referred to eBay policy which I read over and copy/pasted to them in messages that attempting to communicate over a problem with a transaction isn't against eBay policy. eBay's stance is only referring to harassment, soliciting, threats, spam, and other types of conduct which goes outside a business relationship ethos. Once again, because they filed the claim almost 3 weeks after the delivery, I insisted that they take the package with the USPS labels to the supervisor at the Annex which delivers to their locale. I provided the name, PO phone #, cell #, email, and address of whom to speak with at the Annex. They never went or contacted them. Instead, they only replied one last time that somehow they were not treated fairly from the messages and that I was going outside the guidelines of contacting them by telephone. So, I told them to feel free to contact eBay customer service with their complaint and to explain the situation. Because, I was planning on doing it again as well. I'd already contacted CS previous to this week when the buyer dropped off with communicating from two eBay messages. So, I spoke with eBay CS again tonight and they reviewed all the messages and I informed them that I can provide timestamps of texts and calls. I even offered to provide the texts so that they knew the extent of my reason for even contacting them and what was sent. I provided them the Supervisor's contact info at the Annex. They informed me to not worry about it and that it appeared I had a good case when they reviewed based upon the messages and how active I was in trying to communicate with the buyer. They said I had every right to request that they provide this package to a postal employee for inspection since they are claiming that they received it empty and damaged. So, well see from here after the determination of the case in the next 24-48 hours. Supposedly, it's settled in my favor because of the lack of effort the buyer took to even provide a damaged package with USPS labels to the PO. Also, I filed a report with the Postal Inspector over this situation because of how suspiciously it went along and that I wasn't positive that the buyer hadn't applied those labels.
10-05-2021 06:04 PM
@chaos-games.llc wrote:I've confirmed that most if not all USPS PO at the local delivery point don't deliver a package in this condition.
You would be wrong. Maybe just give up on this one, you had no scammer.
10-05-2021 06:06 PM
@chaos-games.llc wrote:Would you go over two weeks without communication and avoid handling the issue? Would you ignore the seller and speaking to USPS if you were using USPS labels illegally to claim receiving an opened or damaged package?
Yes, in fact I would be so annoyed I would report you to Ebay for harassment.
10-05-2021 06:17 PM
No, I wouldn't be wrong. I've spoken to many different PO over the years. Most have a system with inspection of the package at the final point of delivery and they are more thorough using methods by bagging, including a note, and other annotation on the package than just applying a label. Is it 100% of all? Probably not. But, that's when as a seller you do more than just take the word of the buyer who sends a message and wants the ease of just receiving a refund without providing that claim that the carrier delivered it to you empty or damaged. As far as, the buyer and the situation, then your opinion is completely ignorant of what's occurred. The buyer never delivered it to the Supervisor at the Annex for inspection. Their excuse was that they were "busy" and it's "only $50". Well, if that's the case then the buyer doesn't mind suffering the loss since they didn't feel it was important enough to address. There are buyers using different methods to scam on eBay or other platforms. In my opinion, then it's no different than you trying to walk into my home and just steal something. In my state, you could be facing someone who fully believes in exercising their Second Amendment rights. So, theft by mail is a Federal crime and it is also an interstate crime. I whole heartedly recommend every seller to not just lay down and push a buyer to prove their claims. If it involves using carrier damage labels, such as this, then contact the Postal Inspector and the local PO Supervisor. Create an atmosphere that if the buyer is innocent, then they have no problem with following through with a crime of theft. If they are the one who's trying to pull a fast one, then they can increase their risk of getting caught. File a local police report if the transaction ends with a buyer claiming theft or loss and being refunded. At a minimum, have a paper trail to follow them so that if it's habitual, then it can be used in their next attempt to defraud someone.
10-05-2021 06:44 PM
You'd find eBay would review your non-communication and not find you to be honest and fair in the transaction to resolve a problem. No seller, whether individual or big-box retail, owes you a complete refund based upon your claim alone without any proof or willingness to prove that it occurred. In fact, you just sound like a troll on the board and nothing more.
10-05-2021 07:12 PM
The handful of times my packages got caught in their machines they either: retaped the package and sent it back to me, or if the item fell out of the package and got lost in the machines they put my package envelope inside one of theirs with a letter on how to file a search request and mailed it back to me.
At no time did they send the empty package or damaged product on to the buyer.
10-05-2021 07:20 PM
YEP! No claim on first class without purchasing insurance.
10-05-2021 07:25 PM
Unless he purchased insurance........ first class is uninsured.
10-05-2021 07:27 PM - edited 10-05-2021 07:28 PM
@ogaugeminiaturefigures wrote:YEP! No claim on first class without purchasing insurance.
...and if it was insured the claim would most likely be denied because of poor packing. They would note the re-use of an old shipping envelope: Those are not intended to be used for shipping more than once. Same goes for cardboard boxes. The manufacturer rates them for single use.
Many posts on this forum about claims being denied for that reason.
10-06-2021 06:27 AM
Got any links to claims that were decided on the reuse of packaging alone? I've searched and it's quite acceptable to reuse packaging as long as it still retains similar to the same structural integrity. In fact, USPS employees at PO locations have said there's nothing wrong with it either giving the same criteria. Unless, you can provide some real-life examples and testimonies from others who encountered a claim denial based upon the packaging based on reuse and not damaged, then I'm gonna have to say you're spreading misinformation.
10-06-2021 06:34 AM
So the buyer finally did file a claim with Ebay? I had asked earlier and as of that time, he hadn't.