Bogus Return Request

[hodachoke]

I have been a long time eBayer for years, but had not sold anything for over a year. I recently sold a pair of shoes to a buyer. Transaction happened very smoothly. Almost too smoothly. I had posted photos of the shoes, including the box and we agreed on a price. Never was asked any questions because I clearly had a photo of the box tag with the listing. I then shipped the shoes immediately. I received a message from the buyer after they were delivered, saying he thought the shoes might be fake because the box tag had Asian shoe sizes on it, along with English and some other countries shoe size, but they said it should only have English sizes on the tag. The manufacturer makes their shoes in Asia and I have purchased shoes from them before that some had Asian sizes mixed in and some did not. The buyer then sent me a photo of a box from the same company with Asian sizes on it, but said the lettering on my box was a little different. I could not tell the difference between the 2 photos. He then makes a return request. My experience in selling on eBay is that they almost always side with the buyer in a dispute regardless if they have any proof or not. I get that, but something was really weird with his messages and something is just not right. Besides changing his story a few times, how do I know if the buyer might be trying to scam me by shipping fakes back to me and also get their refund. I think I already know the responses I will get to this posting, but is there any way to protect myself from being scammed or do I just take a loss? I never deceived anyone in my listing and I believe the shoes are legit. The buyer never once mentioned the shoes being fake, only the box, until the very last message he sent. He said the soles were different, but I could not tell that in the photos. I would appreciate any feedback that might help my situation…sorry for the long message 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[kitschy*loot]

Sellers are not allowed to leave any feedback with negative wording for a buyer, it has been that way for well over a decade.

[katzrul15]

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@hodachoke wrote:

I never said i was going to fight the return. I wanted to know if there was a best way to make sure I received the item I shipped to them and I am finding out that there is no way to do that. You mentioned SNAD in your posting, but I thought eBay calls it a INAD now? Regardless, should I not be able to let eBay know that I did sell & ship the item as described. I was very clear in my listing and included photos of the item and box as well. If the buyer was a seasoned sneaker head as they positioned themselves, if they had any concern with the box tag, why didn’t they ask me any questions regarding that tag. I just feel that the buyer is 1 of 3 things

1: Buyers remorse

2: found item somewhere else for a lower price

3: scamming me and sending back ‘fake’ pair to keep ‘real’ pair and get a refund

With that said, I know eBay is probably going to side with the buyer. Is there anything wrong with waiting until I hear back from eBay on their decision? I am still holding out for what is right and there may be a small chance they rule in my favor…lol 

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Yes, there is something wrong with waiting and letting e-Bay decide - that is what several of us are trying to tell you - if they rule in favor of the Buyer, your account gets a critical metric ding.  Those are a death-knell to a Seller - you avoid those at all costs.

AND if they rule against you and in favor of the Buyer - the Buyer does not ever have to return the item.  They keep the item AND are refunded in full, including shipping.

[katzrul15]

@hodachoke 

BTW - you will 100% lose - high end sneakers over $100 in value are supposed to be sent to be authenticated by e-Bay.  You sold these for well over that and if they were not sent to do that, e-Bay will side with the Buyer 1000%.  

[hodachoke]

So seller’s have no rights and cannot even respond to a buyer’s ‘invalid’ return request? Why does eBay even state there is an appeal (I am not at that point yet) process, if the seller is going to get dinged for just stating their side of things. No where in the listing process did they require me to get the item certified because it was expensive or I would have done that. All I wanted to do was state my side and some of you are saying I can’t even do that, even though eBay’s own instructions tell me I can.

[hodachoke]

I completed 100% of the listing process and if I didn’t why did eBay let me post the item? At no time was there any message or instruction that said I had to have the item authenticated to sell it at the price I did. I know that won’t make a difference, but if that was a eBay requirement, why did eBay not have have me do that?

[femmefan1946]

@sprinkles91

how on earth do you get a ding on your account for asking ebay to step in!? exactly. because ive never heard of being stricken for asking for ebay's help

This came up on the Canada Board and devon@ebay answered.

CLAIMS
Apparently dotCOM sellers get a Defect for ANY  claim, so it may be best to settle outside of the eBay process. However, I am not sure if that is also true of eBaydotCA.  devon@ebay  What is the Canadian policy?

Hi @femmefan1946! When it comes to return claims, a seller would get a defect for a SNAD (not as described) case if they do not handle it themselves and eBay has to step in and force a decision on behalf of the seller. If the seller handles the SNAD return without us needing to step in then there would be no seller defect placed on the account.  (my emphasis)

The same policy applies to dotCOM.

This comes up over and over, that any request that eBay "step in" gives the seller a Defect and it is just not true.

It's when eBay has to FORCE the seller to refund that the Defect is given.

So asking a possible scammer to take the complaint to eBay and make a Claim, which puts them on eBay's radar, then promptly refunding will not hurt the seller.

And there is a very good chance that the scammer will not follow up with a Claim, because if they have "too many" Claims, they lose the right to use the MBG.

[chapeau-noir]

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@hodachoke wrote:

Thanks for the feedback! Minor issue, but I left positive feedback for the buyer because they paid so quickly. Will eBay let me change my feedback? I want to warn other sellers to not get involved with this buyer or was this just a lesson not to give feedback so quickly?

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You can't change your FB - don't worry about that, anyway, as we can't leave negative FB or negative/positives for buyers anyway, so even a response might be a problem.  I always leave FB when  I ship, and I'm not going to worry about that aspect of things as I don't base my business dealings on the small number of scammers but the vast majority of good people.

As for some of the other points - having eBay step in is generally just a farce - they do not arbitrate, it's just often just an automatic win for the buyer.  What you can do is when you receive the merchandise back, inspect it and then report the buyer for abuse of the MBG.  I don't even know why they bother with the whole 'step in' thing for the sellers, though I suppose there are some incidents where they might find for the seller - I prefer not to take the risk.

You did nothing wrong by listing those shoes, it's just that as a returning seller with fairly low feedback selling in a high-scam market (spendy sneakers), one attracts scammers - it doesn't mean that you have in this case.  Also, eBay has authentication for sneakers which sell for more than $100 and I'm not sure how those didn't go through the authentication program - at least it's a layer of protection for the seller/buyer (though I suppose it's not 100%).

So, you didn't do anything wrong, it's just how things have gotten here.  The transaction didn't go more or less smoothly than most transactions, BTW, it went par for the course - there usually isn't much that happens, buyer buys, seller ships. Only in this case it ended up sketchy.

Good luck, and I hope you get your shoes back!

ETA: Wall o' text formatting problems.

[katzrul15]

Seller return requirements

• When a buyer requests a return for item not as described reasons, the seller must respond within the return request and offer a solution to the buyer's issue.

It is the "offer a solution to the Buyer's issue" on a SNAD, that will be the issue that creates an outcome the OP will want to avoid.

On a "remorse" return, a Seller can stand their ground on their "no return" policy.  On a SNAD, e-Bay indicates a Seller has to offer a solution -   either a partial refund, full refund or a return where Seller pays return shipping.

[downunder-61]

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@sprinkles91 wrote:

yes! you can follow up. on desktop, or desktop mode, go to your feedback profile by clicking on your numbers beside your name. click left for others, then find the feedback you left for that seller, & select follow up.

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Just be careful before you do this.  You can NOT post a negative follow up to feedback for a buyer, so I would not follow this advice.

WAIT and see what comes back, at this point you only have conjecture that this guy is going to send fakes back.

[johnrj1226]

1.  Simply tell  the buyer to return for refund.

2.  Footwear sizing is a bit complicated as  there are no world wide standards that manufacturers follow.  The only way to assure they will fit properly is to try them on.  As  personal example - I like New Balance shoes.  some  shoes  are still made in the US but many are made in China.  If the NB shoes are made in the US I wear one size but if it is made in China I wear a 1/2  longer and the next size wider.  Cannot were any Nike brand shoes - all too narrow.

It seems my  athletic shoes  all  have 4 different shoe  sizes (US, UK, EU, CM ) sewn in label  but my  leather shoes, loafers, dress, western style, work boots all  have a single US size (length & width) stamped in the leather..

3.  When I sold on eBay I did sell a lot of footwear both men's & women's - because of  all these  size  variables - I  provided the actual insole measurements (inside where the foot goes) - length and width - it was a  challenge to get the measurement on western and work boots at times.  Never  had a  return  for fit.

[bonjourami]

"if you have proof of authenticity of the shoes, such as a recept & barcode  then all you have to do is post that to the case & be there 'the second' the ask ebay to step in and help button appears after 4 days, then explain that the shoes are authentic,"

Alberta is correct, any time a seller asks Ebay to step in, they will immediately refund the buyer without requiring him to return the item, and will also ding the sellers account.When Ebay is asked to step in, they see the seller as  offering no resolution to the case.

[sprinkles91]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

@hodachoke 

What albertabrightalberta was trying to illuminate for you is that e-Bay never sides with the Seller on a SNAD situation.  It would be calling the "buyer" a liar and this is a buyer-centric site and e-Bay will not do that.

Once a Buyer files a SNAD, the only way a Seller can work to prevail and hopefully get their product back, is to accept the return and have e-Bay send them a label to return the item.  If you had been TRS, you could have deducted up to 50% if the item was not in the same condition as shipped.

If you choose to let e-Bay step in and you refuse the return, e-Bay will allow the Buyer to keep the shoes AND refund them in full.  YOU as a Seller, will receive a deadly metric ding against your account - you do not want that to happen since you have not been selling for a while and took a hiatus.  If you have been gone from selling over 90+ days, e-Bay treats every seller, seasoned or otherwise, as a "new" Seller, typically.  Normally, in that "return phase" a Seller cannot list a high-dollar item - just for this very reason.

You came here to ask for help and several posters have given you excellent advice.  I would not fight this SNAD - you will lose and the Buyer will keep your shoes AND your monies (in full).

I would suggest you go BBL this Buyer and I would report this Buyer from the transaction view (drop down box) for return Abuse.

Best of luck to you.  Would strongly suggest you accept the return.  

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this is also very sound advice. you have many different perspectives here, but in the end we cannot so much tell you what to do, instead help lead you in the right direction. it is in the end, completely up to you & i feel its best going into this preparing yourself & knowing the hydra for what it is, bias.. 

[sprinkles91]

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@hodachoke wrote:

I completed 100% of the listing process and if I didn’t why did eBay let me post the item? At no time was there any message or instruction that said I had to have the item authenticated to sell it at the price I did. I know that won’t make a difference, but if that was a eBay requirement, why did eBay not have have me do that?

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you never want to send anything you dont want to loose to their authenticators. you'll end up with a demand to immediately pay for return shipping, then no response at all after you promptly reply to the email & then they tell you they "tossed it" bc they didn't hear back from you in time. all of which ive seen on these boards in the past month. i actually just saw a remorse post from a buyer who had to send a baseball card to the "authenticators" & they tell him oh its been damaged & disposed of. they then refund his purchase price, even though the card itself was worth much more than he paid, they refused to communicate at all. in my personal opinion with all of the mess regarding the authentication process on here, i would never trust that specific process..

[sprinkles91]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@sprinkles91

how on earth do you get a ding on your account for asking ebay to step in!? exactly. because ive never heard of being stricken for asking for ebay's help

This came up on the Canada Board and devon@ebay answered.

CLAIMS
Apparently dotCOM sellers get a Defect for ANY  claim, so it may be best to settle outside of the eBay process. However, I am not sure if that is also true of eBaydotCA.  devon@ebay  What is the Canadian policy?

Hi @femmefan1946! When it comes to return claims, a seller would get a defect for a SNAD (not as described) case if they do not handle it themselves and eBay has to step in and force a decision on behalf of the seller. If the seller handles the SNAD return without us needing to step in then there would be no seller defect placed on the account.  (my emphasis)

The same policy applies to dotCOM.

This comes up over and over, that any request that eBay "step in" gives the seller a Defect and it is just not true.

It's when eBay has to FORCE the seller to refund that the Defect is given.

So asking a possible scammer to take the complaint to eBay and make a Claim, which puts them on eBay's radar, then promptly refunding will not hurt the seller.

And there is a very good chance that the scammer will not follow up with a Claim, because if they have "too many" Claims, they lose the right to use the MBG.

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i appreciate you & your response so much. you just finally clarified for me what no one else could explain in detail. thank you for your clarification.💖✌🏻it sounded outlandish & truly over-ill to just strike someone for simply asking for help from the site their buying or selling on, when they urge you to do so in the first place. im in no way naive to Eb's ways, but that misinformation sounded trully ludacris to me & worrisome! 

[sprinkles91 · Accepted solution]

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@downunder-61 wrote:

just be careful before you do this.  You can NOT post a negative follow up to feedback for a buyer, so I would not follow this advice.

WAIT and see what comes back, at this point you only have conjecture that this guy is going to send fakes back.

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i agree with you and i was simply answering their question, not giving advice. thank you🤗