Bogus Return Request

[hodachoke]

I have been a long time eBayer for years, but had not sold anything for over a year. I recently sold a pair of shoes to a buyer. Transaction happened very smoothly. Almost too smoothly. I had posted photos of the shoes, including the box and we agreed on a price. Never was asked any questions because I clearly had a photo of the box tag with the listing. I then shipped the shoes immediately. I received a message from the buyer after they were delivered, saying he thought the shoes might be fake because the box tag had Asian shoe sizes on it, along with English and some other countries shoe size, but they said it should only have English sizes on the tag. The manufacturer makes their shoes in Asia and I have purchased shoes from them before that some had Asian sizes mixed in and some did not. The buyer then sent me a photo of a box from the same company with Asian sizes on it, but said the lettering on my box was a little different. I could not tell the difference between the 2 photos. He then makes a return request. My experience in selling on eBay is that they almost always side with the buyer in a dispute regardless if they have any proof or not. I get that, but something was really weird with his messages and something is just not right. Besides changing his story a few times, how do I know if the buyer might be trying to scam me by shipping fakes back to me and also get their refund. I think I already know the responses I will get to this posting, but is there any way to protect myself from being scammed or do I just take a loss? I never deceived anyone in my listing and I believe the shoes are legit. The buyer never once mentioned the shoes being fake, only the box, until the very last message he sent. He said the soles were different, but I could not tell that in the photos. I would appreciate any feedback that might help my situation…sorry for the long message 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[katzrul15]

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@sprinkles91 wrote:

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@sprinkles91

how on earth do you get a ding on your account for asking ebay to step in!? exactly. because ive never heard of being stricken for asking for ebay's help

This came up on the Canada Board and devon@ebay answered.

CLAIMS
Apparently dotCOM sellers get a Defect for ANY  claim, so it may be best to settle outside of the eBay process. However, I am not sure if that is also true of eBaydotCA.  devon@ebay  What is the Canadian policy?

Hi @femmefan1946! When it comes to return claims, a seller would get a defect for a SNAD (not as described) case if they do not handle it themselves and eBay has to step in and force a decision on behalf of the seller. If the seller handles the SNAD return without us needing to step in then there would be no seller defect placed on the account.  (my emphasis)

The same policy applies to dotCOM.

This comes up over and over, that any request that eBay "step in" gives the seller a Defect and it is just not true.

It's when eBay has to FORCE the seller to refund that the Defect is given.

So asking a possible scammer to take the complaint to eBay and make a Claim, which puts them on eBay's radar, then promptly refunding will not hurt the seller.

And there is a very good chance that the scammer will not follow up with a Claim, because if they have "too many" Claims, they lose the right to use the MBG.

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i appreciate you & your response so much. you just finally clarified for me what no one else could explain in detail. thank you for your clarification.💖✌🏻it sounded outlandish & truly over-ill to just strike someone for simply asking for help from the site their buying or selling on, when they urge you to do so in the first place. im in no way naive to Eb's ways, but that misinformation sounded trully ludacris to me & worrisome! 

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If the Seller does not refund, either in full or partial OR offer a return with shipping paid and then refund in full and e-Bay has to step-in to adjudicate the situation, the Seller absolutely receives a metric ding.

There is some very bad advice on this thread.  My post #38 is cut/pasted from e-Bay policy.  Never mind that high-end sneakers are to be sent to be authenticated.  Lots of issues with how the OP handled this, etc.

[hodachoke]

I was not going to post anything negative. Just remove my ‘recommendation’ for this person as a buyer. I would feel awful if another seller had to go through what I went through.

[hodachoke]

Thanks for the advice. I was not going to post anything negative. I just wanted to remove the ‘recommendation’ comment I left for this buyer. I would feel terrible if another seller had to go through what I did and just end up losing the sale even though you did everything right. I know in the overall picture this doesn’t mean much, but I do feel you should leave honest feedback

[hodachoke]

I’m not even at the point of refusing to refund the buyer. I never said I was going to refuse. I know, no matter that I did not deceive or do anything wrong to this buyer, eBay will probably side with them. All I did was respond to their INAD request to let eBay know that was not the case and my description was completely true. I guess I could have just ok to the return request, but why is it not ok to respond with my side of the story. I know I will have to live by eBay decision, but I am just following the process and can’t understand why eBay would ding me for that. They do have such a thing as an appeal process, correct?

[sprinkles91]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

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@sprinkles91 wrote:

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@sprinkles91

how on earth do you get a ding on your account for asking ebay to step in!? exactly. because ive never heard of being stricken for asking for ebay's help

This came up on the Canada Board and devon@ebay answered.

CLAIMS
Apparently dotCOM sellers get a Defect for ANY  claim, so it may be best to settle outside of the eBay process. However, I am not sure if that is also true of eBaydotCA.  devon@ebay  What is the Canadian policy?

Hi @femmefan1946! When it comes to return claims, a seller would get a defect for a SNAD (not as described) case if they do not handle it themselves and eBay has to step in and force a decision on behalf of the seller. If the seller handles the SNAD return without us needing to step in then there would be no seller defect placed on the account.  (my emphasis)

The same policy applies to dotCOM.

This comes up over and over, that any request that eBay "step in" gives the seller a Defect and it is just not true.

It's when eBay has to FORCE the seller to refund that the Defect is given.

So asking a possible scammer to take the complaint to eBay and make a Claim, which puts them on eBay's radar, then promptly refunding will not hurt the seller.

And there is a very good chance that the scammer will not follow up with a Claim, because if they have "too many" Claims, they lose the right to use the MBG.

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i appreciate you & your response so much. you just finally clarified for me what no one else could explain in detail. thank you for your clarification.💖✌🏻it sounded outlandish & truly over-ill to just strike someone for simply asking for help from the site their buying or selling on, when they urge you to do so in the first place. im in no way naive to Eb's ways, but that misinformation sounded trully ludacris to me & worrisome! 

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If the Seller does not refund, either in full or partial OR offer a return with shipping paid and then refund in full and e-Bay has to step-in to adjudicate the situation, the Seller absolutely receives a metric ding.

There is some very bad advice on this thread.  My post #38 is cut/pasted from e-Bay policy.  Never mind that high-end sneakers are to be sent to be authenticated.  Lots of issues with how the OP handled this, etc.

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that was not at all what my response was referencing, & dont tell me what i can & cant reference in my own post lol. my response & the post i was responding to was specifically about pressing the ask ebay to step in & help button.

[sprinkles91]

my initial post also stated that same fact that you cannot post anything negative. but alas, it gets twisted & often taken out of context🤷🏻‍♀️ i have learned to just ignore it, and know my facts based on my personal experiences here. i agree with you completely. a simple warning does not equal negative in any way, and ebay will and always has blaitently refused to remove positive marked feedback specifically as long as it is not violent or directed/ insulting in any way. a generalized i had this experience is no harm done imho. you cant swear here, & ive had ebay refuse to remove a positive feedback from a buyer years ago off of my account because they insisted it was positive to bc it was marked positive fb & "they dont remove positives." they broke the item & 2 weeks after the sale tried to open an inad case & lost bc they forgot about the case! i had photos to back up that i packed the otem in brand new condition & included their label etc. im very specific for a reason, bc ive ben s over soso much here for so long lol

then they became angry & left snarky "never buy from this seller they dont allow refunds" etc it was all really backwoods temper tantrum. sometimes people are not honest, and in the end, its up to you we cant make tht descision for you. you do what you feel is moral & right.

[sprinkles91]

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@hodachoke wrote:

I was not going to post anything negative. Just remove my ‘recommendation’ for this person as a buyer. I would feel awful if another seller had to go through what I went through.

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additionally, imho thats the most professional way you can handle this. literally i would say personally just as example not to tell you what to say, but "im removing my recommendation for this buyer as ..." there is nothing directly insulting there, & you have every right to do so no matter what anyone tells you.

[sprinkles91]

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@hodachoke wrote:

I’m not even at the point of refusing to refund the buyer. I never said I was going to refuse. I know, no matter that I did not deceive or do anything wrong to this buyer, eBay will probably side with them. All I did was respond to their INAD request to let eBay know that was not the case and my description was completely true. I guess I could have just ok to the return request, but why is it not ok to respond with my side of the story. I know I will have to live by eBay decision, but I am just following the process and can’t understand why eBay would ding me for that. They do have such a thing as an appeal process, correct?

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with my experience, you are not stricken for simply standing up for yourself & morally telling the truth, or pressing that button first. ebay is very bias to who!ever presses the ask ebay to step in & help button first, you have to be there the second it pops up on day 4. i would not ever have even suggested that you refuse to refund the buyer, that was just what others threw in. also, yes there is an appeal process & you can do that here: https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appealing-decision-seller?id=4369 

[albertabrightalberta]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

Never mind that high-end sneakers are to be sent to be authenticated.  Lots of issues with how the OP handled this, etc.

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Evidently, Under Armor sneakers aren't among the brands that are part of the authentication program. 

From the policy: https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-tools/ebay-authenticity-guarantee?id=4644&st=12&pos=3&quer...

Sneakers

Select in-demand models from the following list of brands are eligible for Authenticity Guarantee.

• Nike
• Adidas
• Jordans
• Yeezys
• New Balance
• Asics
• Vans
• Reebok
• Converse
• Puma​
• A Bathing Ape
• Alexander McQueen
• Alexander Wang
• Balenciaga
• Burberry
• Buscemi
• Chanel
• Christian Louboutin
• Crocs
• Dior
• Dolce & Gabbana
• Fear of God
• Fendi
• Giuseppe Zanotti
• Givenchy
• Golden Goose
• Gucci
• Louis Vuitton
• MCM
• Maison Margiela
• Off-White
• Prada
• RHUDE
• Rick Owens
• Saint Laurent
• Salomon
• Valentino
• Versace Visvim
• Y-3
• YEEZY SEASON

[gosimus]

< all you have to do is ... explain that the shoes are authentic >    

@sprinkles91 , your post contains some decent advice regarding boxes and sizes, and even the PayPal.  But the statement to resist the case, not so much.  Logic and reason might work IF returns cases were handled by a wise person, like Yoda, but they aren't.  The computer handles it all, and the computer is programmed to always issue the refund. 

[sprinkles91]

thank you for your comment💖 it doesnt seem that way to me for as long as ive had to deal with ebay. ive lost a fair few cases just because a seller lied and cried buyers remorse back when i didnt have access to a camera, or falsified the tracking number as one theyve already used(happened more than once) to fool the system, then i have to deal with customer service. i know what they will & will not help me with.

i feel ive been S over enough here by the desperate to know what options i have at my disposal by now, & yes its been years since ive sold anything, but i am not illiterate to ebay & i am a buyer now, have been for 16 years, & this isnt always the case with my personal experiences. but then again, thats just your opinion and you have every right to it. there are some who dont agree with standing up for themselves bc their afraid of the system, i am not torn down so easily & i know how far i can push & what not to say.

im autistic so i find patterns in the system that most people cannot. what works and what doesnt. i guess you just have to know it for what it is. a system that is bias..i never said it was fair, unfortunately. everyone has their own opinions & ways of handling ebay, it doesnt mean it is fact or that there is any one way of handling it, & i just simply refuse to accept my morals being stomped on by anyone given all of the trauma ive been through already, i have to work around that as well.

there is always a way to stand up for yourself, i dont often fold to a sheer lack of morals or intentional dishonesty & due to my unique circumstances im painfully aware of the moment someone is trying to lie to me trying to S me over. i always get made fun of when i say that, but its honestly a curse..& quite helpful here tbh.

because thats who i survived & as an adult, a desperate narc..i learned at a very young age to recogdnize the smallest of patterns, to stay out of the way faster. sorry, not even my spell check can help me with that one. i now do not accept that type of behavior from another adult in any capacity. yes it gets me "reprimanded" by other older adults who think they know more than me, i know it for what it is as thats how ive always been treated..

i have yet to have a problem on ebay sticking to those vast morals. im also not stupid & with my mix of disabilities, i can clearly memorize patterns only with the things that interest me.. no one really has any place to have an opinion on that. we all have our own ways of handling the system, mine works for me because i dont take no for an answer or accept that someone doesnt want to do the job their being paid for..im quite painfully persistent when its a business transaction i blaitently refuse to be taken advantage of & use my past experiences with the... eccentrics of ebay, as my guide.

i ramble, & i wasnt directing this towards you,. it just came up & frankly i grow tired of being told what i can & cannot do or what is & isnt acceptable by other users just because of their age that means null to me tbs. so appologies for my feelings.✌🏻