Are we Employee's of Ebay or not ?

[advertisingshop]

It was most interesting, the other day when I posted about getting “spanked” by eBay, to see the numerous responses coming back mostly with the words “well if you don’t want to do it eBay’s way… don’t let the door hit your behind”.    PSS… many also said “well, great..please leave..that will give the rest of us more customers to share”

And these were words of “advise” from “private” moderators. UMMMM… But I took it all with a grain of salt as I understand… these are just lots an lots of “private” enterprisers who are looking out for their own bottom dollar.

But I started musing about those posts… and the thought came to me… Are WE working for ourselves?? Or are WE working for EBAY??

Now . Keep in mind, over the years, in both court sessions and IRS sessions, Ebay continues to state “WE are only enabler’s.” “our PLATFORM is only a means to connect the seller with the buyer and thus eBay’s fees are just payment for such “enabling”.

However, many are beginning to wonder and question this attitude and statement. An “enabler” merely gives those who chose…. “pathways” or “gates” in which to travel from one place or another… taking part NOT in the transaction but only “allowing” the transaction to take place.

Is this what we see today ? Is this what eBay really does.? Are we working for ourselves or do we work for eBay?

Ebay’s claim of only being a “enabler” gives it protection and certain “business gifts”. They don’t have to provide paid holidays, or vacation/sick time pay for their “partners”… they don’t have to pay for unemployment benefits,…nor provide ½ of the social security tax. Supposedly, they are kept out of the courts when claims are made of misconduct or misrepresentation. They don’t have to comply with social or legal laws governing employee/employer conduct or hiring practices. And so on and so forth…

In other words it’s much better for eBay to be considered a “platform” rental than a “business partner”. Partners are liable for other partners mistakes or legal wrongs. Ummm…

And then we come to the days when eBay says to all it’s “self-employees” “well… we’re only gonna allow payment thru paypal” “”we’re only gonna allow you to work “indirectly” with your customers”… “we’re only gonna allow you to list “certain” items”… “ we’re only gonna allow “certain” words in your descriptions” etc etc etc… ummmm ? “and if you cannot comply…well… you are welcome to leave (or be kicked out)… ummmm ? Employer benefits without “being” your employer !!! Or paying employer dues ! Ummmm ?

This sorta reminds me of that grumpy old man in the back room of the store… you know… “the old man”… the guy who “I’m not part of this business… I just rent them the store”… Who’s constantly butting into the business to say “well you should do it this way..or this way…” “That’s not the way “I” would do it”… “ ya know, I would never allow you to do that if “I” was in charge”…

And then he says… “well, if you don’t want to listen to me…then just get your butt outta my building” “But don’t forget to pay this months rent first…”

So, again, as eBay tells us HOW to act, WHAT to say, WHO to say it to, etc. etc.. are we in fact “employee’s” of eBay …or not..?

I hope someone figures it out soon… so we ALL know where we stand in this business… and can therefore “adjust”

And hey… put my vacation time up on the board please… 2nd week of August… mark it down… “JUST in case”…

[monster-deals]

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@fab_finds4u wrote:

Of course you are not an eBay employee. Ridiculous to think that. 

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No but they treat us like interns.

[advertisingshop]

@releasethekraken_1   Hey... if yer gonna quote me...could you at least get the quote correct...   In another thread CONCERNING ANOTHER SUBJECT  I did end with a message from a old carnie quote " See ya... suckers".   In you post above you managed to morph that into someone's "I'll leaving this place" method...  which it was not....    That thread was NOT part of this posting... was never intended as such except that you decided to bring it into the picture... most likely to make the effort to "sway" the folks reading and misdirect attention away from the actual post message.   Which, in case you need some reminding, concerned our relationship as sellers to ebay.   As for "private moderators" that is a viewpoint shared by many, you don't have to agree but you also can't prove otherwise.   and AGAIN...NEITHER threads concerned THAT issue... it doesn't even matter anyways... in fact... there are many who wish ebay WOULD listen in and learn..  but perhaps that would be too risky...    It is interesting to spend a little time and check out  a few hundred posts... and SEE who responds to them... over an over an over...  WITH ALMOST THE EXACT SAME MEANING IN THEIR REPLIES"...   ummmmm...  One things for sure... if they are NOT getting paid by ebay to spout the "accepted way" then they are foolish spending so much of their "free" time on this board instead of selling online... ummmm.

[advertisingshop]

@releasethekraken_1    So...  ya got me to thinking and checking and I'm not sure if I missed it or if perhaps you've not had the time to actually discuss the issue of THIS thread... which is "Are we employee's of ebay or not"...  and in doing so I would surely like to see a response to the IRS statements which I have copied here...  instead of all the arguing and anger about everything else BUT the point of issue !   Perhaps if we stay on track to the issue we can ALL learn something and then move forward...

Many moderators seem willing to skip over this info and make NO reply...

This is how the IRS defines an employee:

"the degree to which the worker is engaged primarily for the benefit of the employer. The IRS considers a worker to be your employee if you have the right to control not only what work will be done, but also how the worker will do it."

Legal definition of an employee:

"......... is subject to the employer's direction as to the details of how to perform the job......"

and here is one copied right of the IRS website.....

"Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed."

[coolections]

You left out one important part of your rant. eBay does NOT pay you wages.  People who buy your stuff pays you. NO, you DO NOT work for Ebay.

[veronicabooksandart]

Buyer pays eBay.
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eBay pays you in the form of a settlement.

[teltuooutlet]

The independent contractor reference was in relation to FOLLOWING THE RULES! I stated nothing about payment in my comment.

[teltuooutlet]

The independent contractor reference was in relation to FOLLOWING THE RULES! I stated nothing about payment in my comment

[coolections]

@veronicabooksandart 

Not exactly true. Buyer puts money into an account and then after fees the money is released to the seller. Ebay did not pay the seller a dime.

[magic*moonbeams]

OMG, Yes!! You could not have explained it better!!! 😄 🙂 *high five*

[sandi7766]

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@veronicabooksandart wrote:

Buyer pays eBay.
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eBay pays you in the form of a settlement.

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So by your argument, I work for consignment shop I take my higher end items to, because they "pay me a settlement" after my item sells.

Huh, I'll have to let the lady know I will be needing her to get rid of any products containing any nut products in the break room, and demand a tampon despenser in the uni sex bathroom.

[veronicabooksandart]

I'll grant nothing ever comes out of eBay's pocket.
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The buyer's funds are paid to eBay per the buyer's CC statement, which are then "settled on your behalf" vis-a-vis Trustly performing fintech magic.

[vintage-car-magazines]

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@advertisingshop wrote:

@releasethekraken_1    So...  ya got me to thinking and checking and I'm not sure if I missed it or if perhaps you've not had the time to actually discuss the issue of THIS thread... which is "Are we employee's of ebay or not"...  and in doing so I would surely like to see a response to the IRS statements which I have copied here...  instead of all the arguing and anger about everything else BUT the point of issue !   Perhaps if we stay on track to the issue we can ALL learn something and then move forward...

Many moderators seem willing to skip over this info and make NO reply...

This is how the IRS defines an employee:

"the degree to which the worker is engaged primarily for the benefit of the employer. The IRS considers a worker to be your employee if you have the right to control not only what work will be done, but also how the worker will do it."

Legal definition of an employee:

"......... is subject to the employer's direction as to the details of how to perform the job......"

and here is one copied right of the IRS website.....

"Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed."

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You keep posting this and have yet to address the question of compensation. Employees are compensated....they're paid to do a job. So are independent contractors.

These definitions are used to determine if someone is an EMPLOYEE or an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. They're not used to determine if you're an employee or a customer. Trying to apply that test to this situation is inappropriate.

Without compensation, you don't have the first test for the employee or contractor question and everything else (the idea of control) is pointless.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

valleegirls,

And my point is, we don't need to confuse matters by thinking of ourselves as "independent contractors"...which, to be clear, we are NOT. We are sellers on ebay's platform.

I'm going to quote part of your post, changing "independent contractor" to "seller", and you see...no need to mention "independent contractor"...."seller"  is accurate, and everything you say still applies 100%. here's what you said about rules:

"As a (Seller) on eBay's platform I have to abide by the rules they have in place, while I have the flexibility of creating my own rules for things that are not policy driven. If I do not like said rules then I am free to go anywhere else to sell my product. 

Personally, I have not been offended by eBay's policy. Are there things I'd love to do differently, sure. I do not have the time or ability to create my own website and draw the numbers of customers which eBay has to that site though. This platform gives me my customers and if I have to be inconvenienced sometimes and not be able to do something a little differently then that is what I am giving up by selling here. 

Every platform has rules, every platform takes a percentage, every platform will have something you don't like. 

That is the benefit of being a (seller) though, you have the option to go wherever you want."

Change the incorrect "independent contractor" to the correct "Seller" and I basically agree with everything you said in that quote.

Why do I even bring this up? Because when someone uses the term "independent contractor", discussions (not pointing the finger at you, just saying generally) tend to go off the "but ebay now exercises so much control that we've gone from being an independent contractor to being an employee" cliff....Because here's the thing, we can NEVER go from being an independent contractor to being an employee because we aren't independent contractors to begin with. So all the talk about ebay's level of control and IRS regulations used to distinguish between independent contractors and employees is just so much irrelevant silliness. 

We are sellers.  If we sell here, we are expected to work within the constraints of the platform. If we feel those constraints make it too difficult (for whatever particular reason or reasons) to continue here, we are free to leave. But we are not independent contractors, and we aren't employees, and the most helpful and accurate way of looking at who we are is: we are sellers. 

[veronicabooksandart]

B2C is fulfillment.
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Incompatible with 1099-K.

[veronicabooksandart]

I was curious about that too. Happily. consignment law is cut and dry. Ownership of accounts receivable is never transferred to the broker. The broker does indeed accept payment on your behalf. For this service, you owe the broker a fee - typically rather significant - ; however, unlike here, I believe it indemnifies you from this:
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