Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

[twk]

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous.  I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought.  It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups.  Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one.  I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED.  She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

How should I handle?  Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc.  In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system.  If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.

[creekcoyote]

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@twk wrote:

You say: " In my opinion do not fight the return.  Simply send them a return label and refund when the item comes back then fight the return through the proper e-bay channels. "

My question is just what those channels would be.  Once the buyer gets what they want and I am out money, the case is closed.  As I understand it, and I could be wrong, ebay will not look at it as I accepted the buyers SNAD claim. 

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Again I  may be wrong, but somewhere in these threads there have been posts about, after the return has been handled, an appeal system that E-bay has for sellers like you.  You might want to go into the resolution center and check on this.  You might be able to get your shipping charges refunded by E-bay. 

Now if the buyers sends back a different item, come back here immediately to these boards and, hopefully, someone will help you on how to proceed with that issue.   I have never had to deal with this, so I really don't know the procedure to follow.

Again, I may be wrong, but it never hurts to check on this.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@doubledz-a2z wrote:

  I had a seller win the bid on a $799 photo album  then accuse me of shilling and said he would not pay.  I offered second chance to underbidder and they were thrilled to get it.   The original winning bidder was able to leave negative feedback.  The second chance actual buyer was able to leave positive feedback.  Thus ONE ITEM RESULTED IN TWO FEEDBACKS.   Now when Second Chance offer is accepted the original item number is nullified.    IF YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT THEN FIGHT FOR IT.

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You can stop patting yourself on the back for supposedly getting a policy changed.

The reason the first neg got removed was because an NPB can't leave feedback and if they do, it gets removed. The original winning bidder was NPB and THAT is why the feedback was removed. 

[be_4101]

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@twk wrote:

My Hubby had to return something to Wal-Mart (which he rarely ever does) and I guess they have changed what use to be a 30 day return policy down to 2 weeks.  He mentioned this because someone in line was arguing with the clerk about the time limit.

Says a bundle that even brick and mortar stores are shorting the return policies not this 30 day + stuff.

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Sorry, the Walmart return timeout far exceeds eBay, allowing as much as 1 year, and they don't have 30-day returns.

Also, please note: A half-gallon is 64 ounces.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@twk wrote:

In all due respect, I sold and sent the buyer what Aynsley says is their 5 cup teapot, which measures approx. 5 1/2" tall,  in the Wild Tudor pattern.  Buyer claims it only holds 3 cups.  Can't be because even Aynsley says it is the 5 cupper.

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I sold a belt several months ago. It was size 40, imprinted and stamped size 40 by the designer/manufacturer right into the leather, titled as "size 40," item specifics as size 40 and in the body of the description was size 40. 

When buyer received, he claimed it was SNAD because it was only 39.75 and he wears a size 40 so this is too small. 

I was sure this would be a slam-dunk because it was right there in black and white. I didn't make the belt and I didn't do the embossing of the size.

The first person I spoke to "promised" me that I'd win the case but it was "too soon to close it" so I should wait it out before escalating. But just as you were told, he assured me I'd win when I called back.

After 9 days of not being able to come to an agreement with the buyer, I called back and got a different CS person who told me that if he closed the case, he'd close it in favor of the buyer and I'd get a defect. Buyer claims it's SNAD so it's SNAD. 

I ultimately accepted the return, paid return shipping and avoided a defect. 

Bottom line is that they tell you what you want to hear knowing that they'll never talk to you again. 

[turquoisetulips]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

People return things for all kinds of reasons. Some are actually addicted to buying and returning stuff, they call them seriel returners. Some buy stuff wear it use it and return it. Look at the long lines at Walmart with all the stuff piled up behind the counter.  Walmart, and a lot of big stores now keep records of returners and at some point say, '"sorry, no more return priveleges". 

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It might be a good idea if e bay  could begin doing that  too ,,  if possible . There must be a better way  to protect sellers . Tulips 

[turquoisetulips]

Says a bundle that even brick and mortar stores are shorting the return policies not this 30 day + stuff. twk 

I always thought the 30 day free returns was a bit excessive . I don't anyone who needs 30 days  to decide if they want to keep a purchase or not ,, including myself . Thirty days  is just too close to being the same  as a  free rental  at the seller's expense  IMO . Of course we have the option not to offer 30 day returns  but it seems some  sellers are afraid not to . I hope things work out for you . Tulips 

[a_c_green]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@doubledz-a2z wrote:

  I had a seller win the bid on a $799 photo album  then accuse me of shilling and said he would not pay.  I offered second chance to underbidder and they were thrilled to get it.   The original winning bidder was able to leave negative feedback.  The second chance actual buyer was able to leave positive feedback.  Thus ONE ITEM RESULTED IN TWO FEEDBACKS.   Now when Second Chance offer is accepted the original item number is nullified.    IF YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT THEN FIGHT FOR IT.

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You can stop patting yourself on the back for supposedly getting a policy changed.

The reason the first neg got removed was because an NPB can't leave feedback and if they do, it gets removed. The original winning bidder was NPB and THAT is why the feedback was removed. 

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One other point: the Second Chance Offer sets up a second listing (a BuyItNow visible only to the user receiving the offer) under a new item number. It does not share the item number of the original listing, and any feedback exchanged on it has no connection to feedback exchanged on the first listing.

Basically, they're two separate entities, regardless of whether the SCO is another attempt to sell the same item, or a new offer to sell a second, duplicate instance of whatever sold the first time.

[pjcdn2005]

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@twk wrote:

You know, the more you try to protect yourself against scammers the worse it seems to get.  I dodged the bullet a few months ago after someone won an auction but not only did not have a confirmed PayPal address in the USA to send it to (he wanted me to send it to an APO) he also wanted to use a foreign credit card, which I don't take.  To this day he is still pestering me to sell him the item but now he is on my blocked bidders list.  If I recall he was from Italy.

I don't ship outside the contingent 48 states and only accept US currency. 

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Off topic but if you don’t ship outside the continental US you need to set up your shipping preferences to block Hawaii, Alaska, APO and US Protectorates.  Right now that is just written in your description so ebay will expect you to ship to those places if you get a sale from there. 

If your APO buyer had paid with his credit card, PayPal would have changed the currency and  you would have been paid in US dollars.  eBay sellers can only be paid in the currency that they’ve listed in.  

[partsalot1]

Is it the discount scam?

there are hoards of people buying on ebay for the sole purpose of complaining for a discount. 

[poanann_0]

Maybe you should stop trying to fight the system, and start accepting 30 day returns on all your items.

Just a suggestion, of course.

[*madison]

It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  

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It's a good idea to state the capacity amount when selling items that hold liquid, and not just state the measurements.

Use water to measure how many pints or litres that the container will hold.

[vintagecraze50]

The 30 day, and 180 days on PP is ABSOLUTELY INSANE in the current environment.

[myescape]

But by listing here you agree to offer ebay buyer protection(and if paid via pp their buyer protection)and to accept and abide by any decision made in such a case.ebay buyer protection trumps your policy in not as described cases

Ebay also will not be at all concerned should you stop selling here-they will not miss you as there are always new sellers coming on board and the priority is BUYER retention

[juststuffisell]

very good point doubled! I would have been very salty about that as well. Usually when I do the second chance offer on a non-paying winner, they never buy 😞

Glad you got that policy changed for all of us!

Cheers

[juststuffisell]

I don't think that is necessarily true. I believe most already know how to work the system and some learn by trial and error. With the increase in SNAD's, people are learning if they can't get free shipping & free returns offered by the seller, they'll file using a reason that will get them what they want. Unfortunate, but true and we are seeing more and more buyers figuring out how to game the system. You assume that those intent on gaming the system aren't smart enough to figure out how to game the system. Some of the smartest people are the ones that learn how to "game the system".

Cheers