Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

[twk]

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous.  I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought.  It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups.  Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one.  I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED.  She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

How should I handle?  Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc.  In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system.  If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.

[vettenoodle]

I'm sure your in the right, you sent exactly what the buyer bought.  That said, folks here are trying to help you.

Returns or no, if the buyer said not as described, you take returns or loose both the money AND the item.  

What ever you do- DO NOT let that case go unresolved and fail to respond in the tiny window of time you are given to resolve it.  

If you do, yep, the case will close.  In your scammers favor.  You will be out your money, your teapot, and postage.   You will have a defect on top of it.

They might be fishing for a partial refund, they might be intending to return something else, or they might just be a flake.   It doesn't matter.  

The advice you are getting is from folks that have learned the hard / expensive way.   

Ebay really needs to implement a way to monitor buyer behavior the same way they grade and monitor seller behavior.     

[threshold.sales.group]

Fwiw, a few weeks ago someone posted a link to a phone call they had with c-s regarding a return and on that call the agent read directly from the policy memo.  The current policy as was outlined in the memo is that once the buyer chooses INAD as the reason for a return that decision cannot be changed by c-s.   The seller must provide a return label (or have ebay do it) and must refund after the tracking shows delivered.  The seller can appeal afterwards and *may* be reimbursed for return shipping.  Like it or not that's just the truth about how the policy is being currently applied.  

[twk]

Yes, isn't that true.  FWIW, after retiring I did some part time sales work at the now gone Marshall Field's and Co. in Chicago.   I worked in the upscale costume jewelry department and there was a beautiful Swarovski crystal tiara.  Stunning!  Anyway, the other ladies told me that it was the rental piece....it had been sold multitudes of times and then returned.  That tiara had seen a lot of weddings and proms.

Well, I sold it to a very nice young lady who spent a lot of time trying it on....it was for her wedding.    About 4 weeks later I come in to work and low and behold, the tiara is back....returned.   The ladies were saying that was about the right time frame considering that after wedding they go on honeymoon, but sometimes the bride would have someone else return it for her and just credit her account.

Oh if that tiara could talk what stories it probably could tell.  LOL

[twk]

Agree with that, but I am a buyer, and a good buyer too.  And from the slow sales the last few months ebay needs me.  FWIW, and I know I shouldn't, I use the same account for both so ebay can see that.

DH says that with all the people asking for free shipping, returns, NASD even when not, etc. it might be time to close up shop.  We are retired.  I mean, is the aggravation even worth it any more?  We no longer do best offers because the low offers we would get were annoying.  Yes, we set the reject below $$$, but then we would get the people who would email and ask us to take less than what was automatically rejected.  Or the ones that tell you they can get it cheaper but they would rather purchase from me.  Oh, I so want to tell them where to go.....look for it.  LOL  DH and I laugh at the chutzpha and stupidity of some people and shake our heads at the meanness of others.

[evelyb30]

There will always be another scammer, and if Ebay closes one loophole they'll just figure out another angle.  Sellers of course will be the ones who pay the price.  I recently ate a return on an SNAD item that was precisely as described; I think the buyer was expecting perfection on a $9.99 item when the listing specified the imperfections. (eyeroll)  The one that took the cake was earlier last year.  A buyer filed an SNAD, returned the item, and NEVER OPENED the package.   How can an item not be as described as if you don't even open it to look???  You guessed it, I ate the return.  There's no point in fighting it and possibly earning a defect in addition to losing the money.  

[myboardid]

To those of you who chose to call other posters names and imply that their comments were intended to be hurtful, you need to know there are no "haters" here, no one is trying to harm the OP in any way.  Experience, both our own and the results experienced by sellers who have come here to tell us what happened to them, are the reason we say to accept the return, even if the OP is absolutely correct.  eBay does NOT change NAD complaints from buyers, does NOT accept the seller's side of the issue, no matter what proof the seller may have, no matter what was in the description.  If the OP refuses the return or doesn't accept it within eBay's time frame, she WILL lose the teapot and she WILL be forced to refund without getting it back.  That is the way the process currently works.

[needalittlehelpsometimes]

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@jason_incognito wrote:

Show of hands here. Who would believe eBay telling them that they will win, when at the same time not even knowing how to fix the problem?

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NOT ME. Not in a million years. I have read too many horror stories so I know better now.  Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Or in the in the words of George W. Bush just because I can't stop myself: 

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.” George W. Bush

[needalittlehelpsometimes]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@ittybitnot wrote:

There is no reference to its capacity at all, not in cups, ounces or anything else. 

Then why did the buyer buy it?  The new SNAD:  Not as imagined

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Very true. In the absence of details, the buyer will use his imagination, and some buyers can be... really imaginative.  

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Yes they can. It only takes seconds to send a quick email to ask what the capacity is. If what I want to know isn't in the listing I send an email. If I get ignored, I move on. If they answer I say thank you.  I do not like returning things so I am super careful about what I buy and I ask any questions that I may have. It's not hard to do at all.

I think all buyers should give it a try. After all, they just might learn something. 😛

[twk]

Where does it say they get to keep the teapot if I don't accept the buyer scam of filing a phony NASD?

[needalittlehelpsometimes]

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@twk wrote:

My Hubby had to return something to Wal-Mart (which he rarely ever does) and I guess they have changed what use to be a 30 day return policy down to 2 weeks.  He mentioned this because someone in line was arguing with the clerk about the time limit.

Says a bundle that even brick and mortar stores are shorting the return policies not this 30 day + stuff.

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I had to return something to Wal-Mart just last month and I thought they had a 30 day return period and I was upset that I missed it. I checked online and learned that they have a 90 day return window. I thought all Wal-Mart stores had the same policy. 

[gamersbaystore]

First off, there is no such thing as "No Returns" on ebay, that's as mythological as Bigfoot. If the buyer insists they don't want the item, ebay will refund their money without them returning the product if the seller refuses to take the item back and provide a shipping label.

Lets not play stupid either. You've been here since 1998, you have to know how the system works here.

Likewise, just because someone decides they dont want something and wants to return it doesn't make them a scammer. I get your frustrations over buyer remorse and having to eat shipping costs, we all do at times, just the way it goes. 

I'd say that the larger majority of returns I had were over buyer remorse, likely more than 95%. These people bought something, now they're broke and want their money back. The higher the price of the item you're selling, the higher the likelihood of seeing a return.

Returns over buyer remorse were so bad back in 2015 when the economy was crumbling 1 out of every 3 transactions I had over $50 was returned that year.

Some people would try and get their money back without returning too. In that case they couldn't because I provided a return shipping label. As long as you provide a label, ebay wont give them nothing until the item is returned, no exceptions. 

People have tried to rip me off on games as well. Their assumption is that because the price is so little I will just give them their money back and let them keep the game. Forget it, not happening. They want their money back, I want my product back as well.

All being said, its best not to worry about things like buyer remorse and eating return shipping costs, they're a bad distraction. The best way to handle those situations is not wasting anytime dealing with them so you can focus on your business, make more listings, and more money.

But some sellers start a back and forth argument with buyers, a wast of time. In my case its always, here's your shipping label, now get lost.

[be_4101]

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@needalittlehelpsometimes wrote:

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@ittybitnot wrote:

There is no reference to its capacity at all, not in cups, ounces or anything else. 

Then why did the buyer buy it?  The new SNAD:  Not as imagined

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Very true. In the absence of details, the buyer will use his imagination, and some buyers can be... really imaginative.  

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Yes they can. It only takes seconds to send a quick email to ask what the capacity is. If what I want to know isn't in the listing I send an email. If I get ignored, I move on. If they answer I say thank you.  I do not like returning things so I am super careful about what I buy and I ask any questions that I may have. It's not hard to do at all.

I think all buyers should give it a try. After all, they just might learn something. 😛

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Yes, I learned that I got blocked for asking. Fool me once, I once was a fool.

[ittybitnot]

Likewise, just because someone decides they dont want something and wants to return it doesn't make them a scammer. 

When a buyer lies and files a phony snad just to force a return or to get free shipping back,  they are a scammer.  That is just "according to me".  Apparently ebay sees nothing wrong with these procedures. 

[buzzapparel]

Exactly correct. I just received a return of worn boots today. $289 loss, buyer gets his money back and I get a used pair of boots. My years of perfect feedback, phenomenal reputation don’t buy me an ounce of credibility on eBay. No one gives me any benefit of the doubt. What a dubious situation. 

[myboardid]

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@twk wrote:

Where does it say they get to keep the teapot if I don't accept the buyer scam of filing a phony NASD?

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It is not in any policy statement, it is what has been told to the CSRs, which they have quoted to other sellers who have been in similar circumstances to yours.  We have seen situations posted in threads here that are almost exactly the same as yours, and it has happened to those sellers.  They have been told that the NAD claim cannot be, or will not be, overturned, and that if the seller denies the claim, the buyer will get a refund, will not have to return the item, and the seller will get a major defect on their account.

A few searches on your part will turn up other threads with these same issues.